what is upper middle class? (Hicksville, Mineola: section 8, apartment, renters)

[Jennie L]

Agree.

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Good points.

There are too many variables to have set numbers delineate upper/middle middle/lower.

Digging around via Google, I am reading that upper middle class isn't as much a dollar sign determination as it is the status of one's education and career. My husband, swinging a hammer and banging nails, is lower middle class because he's blue collar. A teacher, earning the same amount, is upper middle class by virtue of her advanced education.

Personally, I don't care about what's what -- just as long as the bills are paid, a roof over our heads and food is on the table.

[Smash255]

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Exactly. It's weird that people think upper-middle starts at $250k . You could get a $1 Million jumbo mortgage at 5%, and still have 70% of your pre-tax income left making that much money. Only 2% of households even earn over $250k.

And comparing higher COL to low COL areas using an upper-middle class lifestyle;
Let's say Property taxes $10,000 more
Car insurance $500 more
Sales taxes $500 more/year
Housing $10000 more/year
Tolls & LIRR &Gasoline $1000 more

That's $22,000 (we'll ignore state income tax, but equalize it in that most of this extra cost is tax deductible for a lot of people)... $22k more you need to make here to cover the main differences in COL vs poorer areas. I'm not saying that's chump change, but it's not like its double or triple the cost.. And youre living well on a $100k in most parts of the country. So here it makes sense that $125k is easily that equivalent.

Not sure if I would say $125,000 is upper middle class on LI, especially for a family, but it certainly starts quite a bit below the $250,000 mark. I would say $150,000 or so is probably a truer barometer of where the middle class/ upper middle class line is.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by lubby

what if one of the kids is 17 years old??? I know they get their health insurance from the Gov't. I think it's called child health plus for all 4 of them. His disability is not permanent, he's actually on Workers Comp if that makes any difference.

If I remember correctly, one can not file to claim WC and DBL simultaneously. Either the injury is a job-related disability (WC) or a non job-related disability (DBL)

If the family income is below a certain amount, the children will qualify for Children's Medicare; if not, there's Child Health Plus which has an income eligible guideline.

Eligibility and Cost

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

Kids with a disabled parent can get SS clear through college ... SS even gives them MORE $ while they are in college for expenses. If he's on worker's comp then the kids aren't on SS. That's only if the parent is permanently disabled.

The law changed with regard to that and SSDI. Dependent children's benefits cease at age 18.

Perhaps SSI?

[checkmatechamp13]

Originally Posted by SophieDaphne

102.3 (not that they're a reliable source for anything) was talking about some study that had been done that suggested that the "poverty line" for a family of four on Long Island was an annual income of $72k (where elsewhere it would be about 21k, comparatively.) My husband and I are in our mid-20s and make a combined annual income of around 75k (I'm currently in school so that I can hopefully get a better & higher-paying job some day...) and although we're doing ok, I can't see having two kids on that income. Especially with a house, rather than renting. It's kind of sad/scary, considering Long Island really isn't that much better than anyplace else, really.

There's no way the cost of living in LI (or the NYC region in general) is 3.5 times that the national average.

I remember a NY Times article that said that you need about $123,000 to live a lifestyle in NYC that would only cost around $50,000 in Texas. I don't really believe that (I mean, there are some savings that could be had by living in this region, like less of a need to own a car), but if you want to go by that standard, poverty level in LI is about $54,000 for a family of 4.

Originally Posted by indiana515

If renting doesn't count in that 70k figure..then...yep...my wife and I would be poor..I'll believe that..
..actually i was just reading the poverty line for ny state is around 14000 and 3x that and less you'd qualify for financial aid for hospital bills..becaquse i just applied for a pity discount for my trip to the ER...i guess they should have some different laws for LI and upstate.

I don't think states have official poverty lines: I think they all use the federal standard.

Originally Posted by Pequaman

Exactly. It's weird that people think upper-middle starts at $250k . You could get a $1 Million jumbo mortgage at 5%, and still have 70% of your pre-tax income left making that much money. Only 2% of households even earn over $250k.

And comparing higher COL to low COL areas using an upper-middle class lifestyle;
Let's say Property taxes $10,000 more
Car insurance $500 more
Sales taxes $500 more/year
Housing $10000 more/year
Tolls & LIRR &Gasoline $1000 more

That's $22,000 (we'll ignore state income tax, but equalize it in that most of this extra cost is tax deductible for a lot of people)... $22k more you need to make here to cover the main differences in COL vs poorer areas. I'm not saying that's chump change, but it's not like its double or triple the cost.. And youre living well on a $100k in most parts of the country. So here it makes sense that $125k is easily that equivalent.

I don't know about $250,000, but according to the NY Times map here, around 11% of all LI households make over $200,000 per year: Mapping America ? Census Bureau 2005-9 American Community Survey - NYTimes.com

As far as those costs go, you have to consider that in this case, any people who were poor would be renting, and they wouldn't have to pay property taxes.

Chances are they wouldn't be using the LIRR either, since most of the jobs in Manhattan pay over poverty-level wages. They'd probably work locally and could probably live on one car (one spouse drives to work, while the other takes the bus or LIRR to work), whereas in other regions of the country, two cars are often a must-have.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13

There's no way the cost of living in LI (or the NYC region in general) is 3.5 times that the national average.

I remember a NY Times article that said that you need about $123,000 to live a lifestyle in NYC that would only cost around $50,000 in Texas. I don't really believe that (I mean, there are some savings that could be had by living in this region, like less of a need to own a car), but if you want to go by that standard, poverty level in LI is about $54,000 for a family of 4.

First off, one lives on LI. (It's a pet peeve, sorry, had to get that off my chest )

$54K -- gross or net?

LI is not entirely within commuting range of NYC -- while I am almost 50 miles from mid-town, the commute is well over 2 hours door to office. Not many people from my portion of the Island do the Manhattan commute. The further east one heads, the number of commuters greatly diminishes.

Living on LI, a family does need a car. Public transportation is sparse.

I have two family cars with 3 drivers (one a college student who is in assigned risk by virtue of his age. Both vehicles are over 10 years old. Insurance is $4,400 a year.

I don't know about $250,000, but according to the NY Times map here, around 11% of all LI households make over $200,000 per year: Mapping America ? Census Bureau 2005-9 American Community Survey - NYTimes.com

from the site

"Because these figures are based on samples, they are subject to a margin of error, particularly in places with a low population, and are best regarded as estimates."
It lists 4% of the households in Gordon Heights as earning over $200,000. If you're familiar with Gordon Heights, I don't have to let you in on what a joke that is.

As far as those costs go, you have to consider that in this case, any people who were poor would be renting, and they wouldn't have to pay property taxes.

Property taxes are paid for by the tenant in their rent. Rental homes in the blue collar community I once rented in average about $1,600 a month (2br, 1 ba) PLUS utilities. The rent alone is $19,200 a year. That family of 4 at $54K gross just saw 35% of their Pre Tax income spent on housing alone -- no utilities, no food, no clothing.

Chances are they wouldn't be using the LIRR either, since most of the jobs in Manhattan pay over poverty-level wages. They'd probably work locally and could probably live on one car (one spouse drives to work, while the other takes the bus or LIRR to work), whereas in other regions of the country, two cars are often a must-have.

And who cares for the children when Mom and Dad are at work? There are plenty of places where the bus is not close to the house and does not even come close to the place of business. Multiple transfers and a couple of hours later....

As mentioned earlier in the post -- 2 older cars, 3 drivers $4,400 insurance. Nevermind gas, maintenance, etc.

[lubby]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

If I remember correctly, one can not file to claim WC and DBL simultaneously. Either the injury is a job-related disability (WC) or a non job-related disability (DBL)

If the family income is below a certain amount, the children will qualify for Children's Medicare; if not, there's Child Health Plus which has an income eligible guideline.

Eligibility and Cost

He has a job related WC and they have child health plus.

[paperman1111]

Originally Posted by lubby

as far as I know he doesn't . He is a sheet metal fabricator making $15.00/Hr, meanwhile people there less time than him are making more money. At least that's what his wife tells me.

Lubby, is your name really Gladys Kravitz?

[lubby]

Originally Posted by paperman1111

Lubby, is your name really Gladys Kravitz?

NO LOL. I just hope none us us fall into her circumstances , it could happen.

[Ladibug1026]

I would say 175-225 for an average size family....give or take. It also depends where on Long Island, probably a little less out east.