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Old 10-20-2011, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,370 posts, read 3,781,062 times
Reputation: 1279

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
First off, one lives on LI. (It's a pet peeve, sorry, had to get that off my chest )

$54K -- gross or net?

LI is not entirely within commuting range of NYC -- while I am almost 50 miles from mid-town, the commute is well over 2 hours door to office. Not many people from my portion of the Island do the Manhattan commute. The further east one heads, the number of commuters greatly diminishes.

Living on LI, a family does need a car. Public transportation is sparse.

I have two family cars with 3 drivers (one a college student who is in assigned risk by virtue of his age. Both vehicles are over 10 years old. Insurance is $4,400 a year.

from the site

"Because these figures are based on samples, they are subject to a margin of error, particularly in places with a low population, and are best regarded as estimates."
It lists 4% of the households in Gordon Heights as earning over $200,000. If you're familiar with Gordon Heights, I don't have to let you in on what a joke that is.

Property taxes are paid for by the tenant in their rent. Rental homes in the blue collar community I once rented in average about $1,600 a month (2br, 1 ba) PLUS utilities. The rent alone is $19,200 a year. That family of 4 at $54K gross just saw 35% of their Pre Tax income spent on housing alone -- no utilities, no food, no clothing.


And who cares for the children when Mom and Dad are at work? There are plenty of places where the bus is not close to the house and does not even come close to the place of business. Multiple transfers and a couple of hours later....

As mentioned earlier in the post -- 2 older cars, 3 drivers $4,400 insurance. Nevermind gas, maintenance, etc.
Here's an article that says that the $123,000 was for Manhattan. For somebody in Queens, the requirement would be about $86,000: NYC'S AILING MIDDLE - NYPOST.com

Here's the study they're referring to: http://www.nycfuture.org/images_pdfs...Aspiration.pdf

So since the cost of living in LI is probably roughly the same as in Queens, the poverty level would be $38,442 before taxes (here's how they calculate the poverty status: How the Census Bureau Measures Poverty - U.S Census Bureau)

Here's the chart for the poverty status relative to the number of people in the household: 2011 Poverty Guidelines, Federal Register Notice

So for a single person, the poverty line would be $18,731.

And for owning a car, it would be possible to go without one if you lived in an area like Mineola or Hicksville, that has LIRR service and bus routes serving it. But I guess when you divide up the cost, it's not terribly expensive.

As far as the sample sizes go, the Law of Large Numbers probably applies here. They might've overestimated it for Gordon Heights and similar areas, but they probably underestimated it in some areas as well.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:39 PM
 
191 posts, read 224,959 times
Reputation: 88
As I've said before, there is a way to live under your means, and I am all for this. I don't live a luxurious lifestyle, don't make a hell of a lot of money, and still manage to get by and enjoy myself when I want to. I don't have tons of "bling" or whatever it's called these days, nor do I have 20 SUVs in my garage or 16 Coach bags, but I think I'm doing alright. Sure, I'd like to make more money and would love to live in a cheaper locale, but for now, this has to do and I do what I can without overextending my budget.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:41 PM
Status: "Happy Holidays" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Islip,NY
11,501 posts, read 8,531,429 times
Reputation: 9320
Quote:
Originally Posted by SophieDaphne View Post
As I've said before, there is a way to live under your means, and I am all for this. I don't live a luxurious lifestyle, don't make a hell of a lot of money, and still manage to get by and enjoy myself when I want to. I don't have tons of "bling" or whatever it's called these days, nor do I have 20 SUVs in my garage or 16 Coach bags, but I think I'm doing alright. Sure, I'd like to make more money and would love to live in a cheaper locale, but for now, this has to do and I do what I can without overextending my budget.
Yes there is and I am all for it too.
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Old 10-20-2011, 07:50 PM
 
Location: Planet Earth
3,370 posts, read 3,781,062 times
Reputation: 1279
I'm reading the report, and it says that a $50,000 lifestyle in Houston would cost $83,168 in Nassau (see page 11).

The thing is that I'm not sure how many people that is referring to ($50,000 for a single? For a married couple? For a couple with 2 kids?)

Just throwing it out there, but "middle class" technically means people who are making roughly the median amount of everybody else in the region. It doesn't necessarily mean that they can afford a certain lifestyle. If you went to a third-world country, a "middle class" lifestyle there would be considered poverty in the US.

So if the median income in LI is around $90,000, that means middle class is between $72,000 and $108,000, and upper middle class is above that. Of course, you have to factor in that married couples make more than singles, and people with kids might work extra jobs to make extra income to cover the expenses of their kids.
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Old 10-20-2011, 10:21 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
13,940 posts, read 16,654,527 times
Reputation: 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by checkmatechamp13 View Post
Here's an article that says that the $123,000 was for Manhattan. For somebody in Queens, the requirement would be about $86,000: NYC'S AILING MIDDLE - NYPOST.com

Here's the study they're referring to: http://www.nycfuture.org/images_pdfs...Aspiration.pdf

So since the cost of living in LI is probably roughly the same as in Queens, the poverty level would be $38,442 before taxes (here's how they calculate the poverty status: How the Census Bureau Measures Poverty - U.S Census Bureau)

Here's the chart for the poverty status relative to the number of people in the household: 2011 Poverty Guidelines, Federal Register Notice

So for a single person, the poverty line would be $18,731.

And for owning a car, it would be possible to go without one if you lived in an area like Mineola or Hicksville, that has LIRR service and bus routes serving it. But I guess when you divide up the cost, it's not terribly expensive.

As far as the sample sizes go, the Law of Large Numbers probably applies here. They might've overestimated it for Gordon Heights and similar areas, but they probably underestimated it in some areas as well.
Why are you citing figures for NYC? It's a different animal -- taxing is done differently. School taxes in NYC are much cheaper than on LI.

You mentioned Mineola and Hicksville, so let's get back to LI -- or at least Nassau.

Nassau County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Per capita money income in past 12 months (2009 dollars) 2005-2009 $40,515
Median household income, 2009 $92,221

From the looks of the figures it appears that these are two income families.

From the link you were kind enough to provide:
According to the Guideline -- poverty level for a family of 3: $18,530

Rental in Mineola starts around $1650. = $19,200 per year.

We have the Smiths, a young couple with one child and no car. They gross $92,221, married filing jointly they clear around $69,165. The Smiths rent a small garden apartment -$19,200. They work in NYC - LIRR monthly RT between Penn and Mineola X2 = $5,352. They pay for daycare @ 1200/month = $14,400

So far that's $38,952 without figuring in food, utilities, clothing, medical expenses, renters insurance, transportation expenses outside the monthly pass (Bus? Subway? Cabs?), student loans, any other debt they're carrying, dry cleaning, laundromat, etc.

When all is said and done, they are not living what most people would consider to be an upper middle class life style (topic of thread) despite having the education which define them as such.

Going back to Gordon Heights -- it is largely a poor, minority area. It is highly unlikely ANYONE there is earning anything in the six figures.
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Long Island (chief in S Farmingdale)
14,429 posts, read 7,862,617 times
Reputation: 2568
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Why are you citing figures for NYC? It's a different animal -- taxing is done differently. School taxes in NYC are much cheaper than on LI.

You mentioned Mineola and Hicksville, so let's get back to LI -- or at least Nassau.

Nassau County QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Per capita money income in past 12 months (2009 dollars) 2005-2009 $40,515
Median household income, 2009 $92,221

From the looks of the figures it appears that these are two income families.

From the link you were kind enough to provide:
According to the Guideline -- poverty level for a family of 3: $18,530

Rental in Mineola starts around $1650. = $19,200 per year.

We have the Smiths, a young couple with one child and no car. They gross $92,221, married filing jointly they clear around $69,165. The Smiths rent a small garden apartment -$19,200. They work in NYC - LIRR monthly RT between Penn and Mineola X2 = $5,352. They pay for daycare @ 1200/month = $14,400

So far that's $38,952 without figuring in food, utilities, clothing, medical expenses, renters insurance, transportation expenses outside the monthly pass (Bus? Subway? Cabs?), student loans, any other debt they're carrying, dry cleaning, laundromat, etc.

When all is said and done, they are not living what most people would consider to be an upper middle class life style (topic of thread) despite having the education which define them as such.

Going back to Gordon Heights -- it is largely a poor, minority area. It is highly unlikely ANYONE there is earning anything in the six figures.
While Gordon Heights certainly has many who are poor its not like everyone living in the community has little $$$. I'm sure some there make six figures, having about 1/3 of the amount of people that make over $200,000 compared to the rest of LI doesn't sound that unreasonable.
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Old 10-21-2011, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
13,940 posts, read 16,654,527 times
Reputation: 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smash255 View Post
While Gordon Heights certainly has many who are poor its not like everyone living in the community has little $$$. I'm sure some there make six figures, having about 1/3 of the amount of people that make over $200,000 compared to the rest of LI doesn't sound that unreasonable.
There are under 900 households in Gordon Heights. A fair number are Section 8, or sex offender housing, or some other subsidized housing. Looking at the figures on a link (I believe) Pequa provided, households where income was pushing 6 figures were in much more palatable places to live.

If your household income were $200,000.00, would you choose to live in Gordon Heights or would you opt to live amongst your socio-economic peers?
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Old 10-21-2011, 12:09 PM
 
94 posts, read 145,637 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
I have two family cars with 3 drivers (one a college student who is in assigned risk by virtue of his age. Both vehicles are over 10 years old. Insurance is $4,400 a year.
As mentioned earlier in the post -- 2 older cars, 3 drivers $4,400 insurance. Nevermind gas, maintenance, etc.
Please tell me what company you are with so I can stay farrrrr away.

4400 for 2 10 year old cars is insane on long island.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
13,940 posts, read 16,654,527 times
Reputation: 4754
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac1122 View Post
Please tell me what company you are with so I can stay farrrrr away.

4400 for 2 10 year old cars is insane on long island.
Reread the post you replied to -- I have a 19 year-old who is one of the 3 drivers. He's in the assigned risk by virtue of his age, which in turn drives up our premium. He's about $3K of that $4400. Also, I have a PUP, which means I have to have (forgetting the term) higher limits on certain parts of the policy to maintain the PUP.
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Old 10-21-2011, 03:55 PM
 
94 posts, read 145,637 times
Reputation: 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Reread the post you replied to -- I have a 19 year-old who is one of the 3 drivers. He's in the assigned risk by virtue of his age, which in turn drives up our premium. He's about $3K of that $4400. Also, I have a PUP, which means I have to have (forgetting the term) higher limits on certain parts of the policy to maintain the PUP.
My 16 year old daughter is on mine and I'm still nowhere near your numbers and I have 3 cars. It's most likely the pup, but I would shop around.

See now you can inch closer to upper middle class lol.
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