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What fields are you referring to that can negotiate with management. Most of the jobs are so saturated the unions are the only reason pay hasn't dropped more. My workplace has job postings for custodians a couple times a year. The salary is paltry <30k for 40hr weeks. There are always several hundred applicants willing to pay those dues.
I'm about five years out of school, and almost everyone I know (some in professional office environments, some in fields like retail management or hospitality) negotiates with management when fielding a new job offer or promotion (e.g. increasing 2 weeks' vacation a year to 3, or negotiating a partial telework situation or slightly altered schedule like 8-6 or 10-8 instead of 9-7, or arranging for things like a company-sponsored cell phone, etc.). If you're good at what you do and the employer wants to hire you, the collective experience that I and my friends have had is that they'll work with you on stuff that, for them, is small, but for you, helps improve your quality of life/ability to work/whatever.
Obviously, this doesn't work in manual labor jobs like being a custodian, since pretty much any physically healthy person can do the job, but it's certainly the case for skilled workers, and it's why some skilled workers like C's husband (teacher, right?) would potentially prefer not to be unionized.
I'm about five years out of school, and almost everyone I know (some in professional office environments, some in fields like retail management or hospitality) negotiates with management when fielding a new job offer or promotion (e.g. increasing 2 weeks' vacation a year to 3, or negotiating a partial telework situation or slightly altered schedule like 8-6 or 10-8 instead of 9-7, or arranging for things like a company-sponsored cell phone, etc.). If you're good at what you do and the employer wants to hire you, the collective experience that I and my friends have had is that they'll work with you on stuff that, for them, is small, but for you, helps improve your quality of life/ability to work/whatever.
Obviously, this doesn't work in manual labor jobs like being a custodian, since pretty much any physically healthy person can do the job, but it's certainly the case for skilled workers, and it's why some skilled workers like C's husband (teacher, right?) would potentially prefer not to be unionized.
It works where the taxpayers are a captive bunch of wallets paying the expenses and the people in charge feel free to throw money around to the unionized public sector. Take a look at what your sky high school taxes fund right here on LI. $70K a year elementary school custodians on Long Island with incredible benefits and a full pension:
Is it worth applying for CS jobs? When the economy is booming CS jobs are frowned upon by college graduates but when economy is in the tank (like now) CS positions are gold my friend. I have been cleaning up puke,emptying garbage cans and mopping floors for almost 30 years and my salary just hit $70k with incredible benefits.Am I rich? Nope,but I will retire with a decent pension,payed off a mortgage,managed to save $45k in a 529 for my kids college and have $almost $200k in an annuity.My bride too is in CS and she has done the same.It's all about personal responsibility and lifestyle choice.
Find me school custodians anywhere else in the US ... even in the public sector ... that get that deal and you will find it hard for the precise reason you say ... "pretty much any physically healthy person can do the job." Only in another public sector racket where they ripoff taxpayers like Westchester you probably can find it, but I bet it's rare elsewhere in the US.
I_Love_LI, you misunderstood me. I meant that negotiating with management IN THE ABSENCE OF a union wouldn't work for manual laborers and the like (as Galicia's post, which I quoted, suggested).
I'm about five years out of school, and almost everyone I know (some in professional office environments, some in fields like retail management or hospitality) negotiates with management when fielding a new job offer or promotion (e.g. increasing 2 weeks' vacation a year to 3, or negotiating a partial telework situation or slightly altered schedule like 8-6 or 10-8 instead of 9-7, or arranging for things like a company-sponsored cell phone, etc.). If you're good at what you do and the employer wants to hire you, the collective experience that I and my friends have had is that they'll work with you on stuff that, for them, is small, but for you, helps improve your quality of life/ability to work/whatever.
Obviously, this doesn't work in manual labor jobs like being a custodian, since pretty much any physically healthy person can do the job, but it's certainly the case for skilled workers, and it's why some skilled workers like C's husband (teacher, right?) would potentially prefer not to be unionized.
That is great for you and your friends but, I have been working as a skilled manual laborist for 17 years. The first 11 with a private contractor and the last 6 as a civil servant. Working with the contractor was great. Never had to ask for a raise. Had a company vehicle with all gas paid. After 4 years I had health coverage and a free cell phone to use. The last couple years I was making serious money as it was the dormer boom and also got bonuses after jobs were complete. I was scared to death about leaving all that to work civil service but, after 6 years I would only go back to that if I was forced. I know about the demand for these skilled union jobs and the only reason there isn't more is because many people are unaware of the full spectrum of benefits and perks.
That is great for you and your friends but, I have been working as a skilled manual laborist for 17 years. The first 11 with a private contractor and the last 6 as a civil servant. Working with the contractor was great. Never had to ask for a raise. Had a company vehicle with all gas paid. After 4 years I had health coverage and a free cell phone to use. The last couple years I was making serious money as it was the dormer boom and also got bonuses after jobs were complete. I was scared to death about leaving all that to work civil service but, after 6 years I would only go back to that if I was forced. I know about the demand for these skilled union jobs and the only reason there isn't more is because many people are unaware of the full spectrum of benefits and perks.
Dude, you kind of just proved my point right there - working with the private contractor, you received benefits you'll never get as a civil servant. I completely understand that, for you personally, the benefits that you receive as a civil servant outweigh the benefits you were getting from working in the private sector, but not everyone feels that way. That was C's (and my) only point - some people would rather have more money, the company vehicle, the free cell phone, etc. than the lower pay with security/pension/whatever else that comes with civil service work. It's a personal decision, that's all.
Dude, you kind of just proved my point right there - working with the private contractor, you received benefits you'll never get as a civil servant. I completely understand that, for you personally, the benefits that you receive as a civil servant outweigh the benefits you were getting from working in the private sector, but not everyone feels that way. That was C's (and my) only point - some people would rather have more money, the company vehicle, the free cell phone, etc. than the lower pay with security/pension/whatever else that comes with civil service work. It's a personal decision, that's all.
Peoples opinions change when they settle down and have a family. My thinking has definitely changed alot since I was 26.
Nice assumption there, but I'm 30 and married. I'm only 5 years out because I have an advanced professional degree.
It wasn't meant to be a knock. I know it's corny and cliche to say but, even at 30 I was childless and thought differently. If I never took that job my entire life would be very different. Construction basically ended for 5 years and if not for Sandy it would still be poor. You and your friends invested alot into your educations and I glad that you succeeded. All those poor educated people at OWS makes me think that you guys are fortunate and there are far more people that can't negotiate their terms at work than those who can dictate their contract.
As you get closer to retirement and weather the ups and downs of the market, you realize why people appreciate a nice pension. Imagine if you were just about to retire when the crap hit the fan five years ago. Or you were about to send your child off to college and that savings went bye bye.
My father has a private sector pension, as does almost every one my parents are friends with (they live in a 55+ community). These people worry about NOTHING. Yes, he has a 401(k) and other investments, but all he has to do is wake up on the first of every month to a nice fat paycheck. He actually complains about having to take the distribution from his 401(k) every year and waits till the last possible second to do so.
As you get closer to retirement and weather the ups and downs of the market, you realize why people appreciate a nice pension. Imagine if you were just about to retire when the crap hit the fan five years ago. Or you were about to send your child off to college and that savings went bye bye.
My father has a private sector pension, as does almost every one my parents are friends with (they live in a 55+ community). These people worry about NOTHING. Yes, he has a 401(k) and other investments, but all he has to do is wake up on the first of every month to a nice fat paycheck. He actually complains about having to take the distribution from his 401(k) every year and waits till the last possible second to do so.
It's so rare to find a pension in the private sector nowadays. Sad. My father is about the retire from Northrop Grumman in a few years, he will get a nice pension and his 401k with medical. If he were hired by the same company today all he would get is a 401k.
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