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Old 11-14-2011, 12:01 AM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,515,337 times
Reputation: 3079

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I've said it a dozen times-
It's not necessarily greed, although in some cases it certainly is.

But this is a reflection of the state of the economy being very different 40-50 years ago, and much better financial times led municipalities (and at the time corporations) to offer benefit packages for life, which was never expected to go 40 years post retirement.

This was never a good idea- as it makes no fiscal sense.
Some of these holes have been patched up for future generations- but the suffering we see now is at the hands of baby boomers who are receiving both decent paychecks and incredibly generous retirement packages.

The first solution is to demand, absolutely demand, that pensions in NYS be taxed- to at least offset a portion of the problem.

I completely agree that the tax rate should be higher for those who choose to reside outside of NYS.

It's a sad situation... those collecting pensions were offered a contract which both parties agreed to. Many have done nothing wrong, but those who drafted these ideas must have known that 40 years down the line the time would come to pay the piper.

There is no money left, there is no solution to this problem.
Even switching every employee now to 401Ks could only hurt the problem further as there would be no contributions to the somewhat financially solvent Retirement systems in NYS.

Police Men, Teachers, Village Employees, etc. regardless of being amazing at their job, or pathetic at it- whether good hearted people, or greedy, is irrelevant in the greater problem of the situation-

These people put 0 dollars in, and may withdraw 1.5 million over the course of their retirement.
That's a serious problem. Won't SOMEONE in Government admit- that someone screwed up to allow such a system?
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:35 AM
 
629 posts, read 1,405,823 times
Reputation: 642
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
The people who educate your kids and protect you from crime are worthless leeches? I mean, yeah, we pay too much for their services, but don't fall into the habit of dehumanizing people.
Since you seem to know a lot about me, my children, and the crime I need protecting from - let me clarify two things for you:

First and foremost, I would not hand the most important things in MY life over to some government-run organization for their education. So no government employee is going to "teach" my children anything.

Second, I live in an upscale neighborhood - there's no crime to speak of here. My neighbors are executives and business owners - for the most part. Most crime is perpetuated by the under-classes against their own.

Yes - in MY opinion (irrespective of how you are offended) while government employees are an unfortunate necessity - the extent to which many of them are extorting money from the public is offensive to the core and lessens my already minimal respect for them and hence my use of the rather strong term "worthless leaches".
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:48 AM
 
Location: Smithtown, NY
1,600 posts, read 3,029,780 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
I hate to say it but we need a major financial crisis in the US to remedy this situation. We need hundreds of municipalities to file for bankruptcy...forcing the altering of state constitutions, increased contributions from pensioners into the pension system (and healthcare), eliminating overtime from pension calculations, switching all new employees to 401k type retirement plans.

DiNapoli's playing accounting games with the pension fund to hide the trouble we're really in...postponing the day of reckoning.

Come Pequa, you're smarter than that. Something as sensational as a municipal bankruptcy isn't necessary. Everything you mentioned can be achieved through legislation and most of those items are in Cuomo's tier 6 proposal. While it wasn't acted on this past year, you would have to be blind not to see this becoming reality. (not saying you are blind, just in general)
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Old 11-14-2011, 05:57 AM
 
1,481 posts, read 2,707,908 times
Reputation: 978
It just blows my mind how MANY years ago NO ONE wanted these public service job. I had friends tell me "why should I work for that much when I can make almost double on Wall St"

Well, we ALL know what happened to Wall St/Jobs. Now they wish they had these "public service" jobs.

However, I do agree on the pension system. I have a friend who started NYPD at age 18, Age 38 retired on 1/2 pay (20 years on). So, for the next 35-45 years he receives 1/2 pay.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:05 AM
 
78 posts, read 102,231 times
Reputation: 103
I'm curious as to why someone of and upper class status would feel the need to minimize the complexities of those individuals who choose to work in city,county or government municipalities. Not all government employees take home fat pensions! I don't begrudge the hard workers who get up everyday for many years to teach our children or patrol our neighborhoods. If you intend too pick on middle America I suggest we also look at the top 1%. If concessions must be made lets do it all the way around.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:15 AM
 
78 posts, read 102,231 times
Reputation: 103
FYI The earliest you could enter the NYPD was 20 and that was over 20 years ago. The age requirement has changed to 21. Only employees who work in a civilian capacity can work at 18 and they aren't entitled to a 20 year pension. They are required to work until 55 or 62 depending on which tier they were hired under.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Long Island
29,522 posts, read 12,347,656 times
Reputation: 6104
The increases for 2013 are going to put all the budgets in serious trouble, remember this is just for the pensions, doesn't include healthcare. I don't know how municipalities are going to pay off these increases.


" The Employees' Retirement System's average contribution rate for 2013 will rise to 18.9 percent of payroll, from 16.3 percent in fiscal year 2012. The Police and Fire Retirement System's contribution rate will increase to 25.8 percent of payroll in 2013, from 21.6 percent in fiscal year 2012. Most local entities pay into the Employees' Retirement System, while the counties, some villages and some police districts pay into both.
.....The TRS contribution rate will rise to 12 percent for its fiscal year 2013, the system reported last week. "
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:48 AM
 
9,902 posts, read 12,973,449 times
Reputation: 5462
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
I've said it a dozen times-
It's not necessarily greed, although in some cases it certainly is.

But this is a reflection of the state of the economy being very different 40-50 years ago, and much better financial times led municipalities (and at the time corporations) to offer benefit packages for life, which was never expected to go 40 years post retirement.

This was never a good idea- as it makes no fiscal sense.
Some of these holes have been patched up for future generations- but the suffering we see now is at the hands of baby boomers who are receiving both decent paychecks and incredibly generous retirement packages.

The first solution is to demand, absolutely demand, that pensions in NYS be taxed- to at least offset a portion of the problem.

I completely agree that the tax rate should be higher for those who choose to reside outside of NYS.

It's a sad situation... those collecting pensions were offered a contract which both parties agreed to. Many have done nothing wrong, but those who drafted these ideas must have known that 40 years down the line the time would come to pay the piper.

There is no money left, there is no solution to this problem.
Even switching every employee now to 401Ks could only hurt the problem further as there would be no contributions to the somewhat financially solvent Retirement systems in NYS.

Police Men, Teachers, Village Employees, etc. regardless of being amazing at their job, or pathetic at it- whether good hearted people, or greedy, is irrelevant in the greater problem of the situation-

These people put 0 dollars in, and may withdraw 1.5 million over the course of their retirement.
That's a serious problem. Won't SOMEONE in Government admit- that someone screwed up to allow such a system?
Best post so far.


Everyone can put all the name calling aside, or the "heros" can put their hyperbole aside...the system can't work.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:48 AM
 
Location: Long Island
29,522 posts, read 12,347,656 times
Reputation: 6104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky25 View Post
It just blows my mind how MANY years ago NO ONE wanted these public service job. I had friends tell me "why should I work for that much when I can make almost double on Wall St"

Well, we ALL know what happened to Wall St/Jobs. Now they wish they had these "public service" jobs.

However, I do agree on the pension system. I have a friend who started NYPD at age 18, Age 38 retired on 1/2 pay (20 years on). So, for the next 35-45 years he receives 1/2 pay.
Three points:

-Years ago the salaries of these jobs were not well above the median income for the area.

-Years ago health care costs were not close to what they are today

-Not everyone works on Wall St.
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Old 11-14-2011, 06:55 AM
 
2,748 posts, read 3,011,485 times
Reputation: 2349
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthBound3 View Post
Since you seem to know a lot about me, my children, and the crime I need protecting from - let me clarify two things for you:
I know nothing about you other than your posts, which make you sound like an entitled ass.
Quote:
First and foremost, I would not hand the most important things in MY life over to some government-run organization for their education. So no government employee is going to "teach" my children anything.
Homeschool? Or did you turn them over to the kiddy fiddlers in the church?
Quote:
Second, I live in an upscale neighborhood - there's no crime to speak of here. My neighbors are executives and business owners - for the most part. Most crime is perpetuated by the under-classes against their own.
Do you think that trend would continue if there were no police? By all means, I would like to see the results of that experiment.
Quote:
Yes - in MY opinion (irrespective of how you are offended) while government employees are an unfortunate necessity - the extent to which many of them are extorting money from the public is offensive to the core and lessens my already minimal respect for them and hence my use of the rather strong term "worthless leaches".
I don't draw a salary from the government and therefore am not offended.

I pay very high taxes to live here as well, and recognize that some serious reforms are necessary on Long Island - though much of it has to do with overlapping waste, a legacy of this being a rural area that needed over a hundred school districts, water districts, sewer districts, duplicate layers of village, town, and county government, etc. We could bring teacher and administrator salaries/benefits down to a more reasonable level and still have high taxes because of all this duplication.

Incidentally, upscale areas of the type in which you reside are the worst offenders, paying your superintendents $500k a year and pushing through every budget no matter what the increase. Your executive and business owner neighbors are at fault for perpetuating this, not the "under-classes".
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