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Old 11-14-2011, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,882,078 times
Reputation: 7177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky25 View Post
It just blows my mind how MANY years ago NO ONE wanted these public service job. I had friends tell me "why should I work for that much when I can make almost double on Wall St"

Well, we ALL know what happened to Wall St/Jobs. Now they wish they had these "public service" jobs.

However, I do agree on the pension system. I have a friend who started NYPD at age 18, Age 38 retired on 1/2 pay (20 years on). So, for the next 35-45 years he receives 1/2 pay.
Work 20 and get paid for the remainder of one's life, plus benefits.

One thing which should be considered is the retirement age -- make a minimum age 50 or 55, increase the amount an employee has to contribute toward their retirement.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,882,078 times
Reputation: 7177
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
I know nothing about you other than your posts, which make you sound like an entitled ass.Homeschool? Or did you turn them over to the kiddy fiddlers in the church?Do you think that trend would continue if there were no police? By all means, I would like to see the results of that experiment.I don't draw a salary from the government and therefore am not offended.

I pay very high taxes to live here as well, and recognize that some serious reforms are necessary on Long Island - though much of it has to do with overlapping waste, a legacy of this being a rural area that needed over a hundred school districts, water districts, sewer districts, duplicate layers of village, town, and county government, etc. We could bring teacher and administrator salaries/benefits down to a more reasonable level and still have high taxes because of all this duplication.

Incidentally, upscale areas of the type in which you reside are the worst offenders, paying your superintendents $500k a year and pushing through every budget no matter what the increase. Your executive and business owner neighbors are at fault for perpetuating this, not the "under-classes".
I tried to rep you but I have to spread it around some more.

I am curious as to when 11792 became upscale. The average income was $17000 less than my middle class area. (2010 census)

Depending on which school district the house is in, I wouldn't send a child to one and would loathe paying the taxes in the other -- given the Shoreham cash cow has run dry.

It would appear that this individual is planning on moving off LI for the TN. Many things s/he posts is tinged with negativity toward LI which either smacks of entitlement or is underclass like those s/he wag their finger at. Best of luck to them down south.
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Old 11-14-2011, 07:54 AM
 
2,852 posts, read 2,847,977 times
Reputation: 1172
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
Incidentally, upscale areas of the type in which you reside are the worst offenders, paying your superintendents $500k a year and pushing through every budget no matter what the increase. Your executive and business owner neighbors are at fault for perpetuating this, not the "under-classes".
I'd say school boards would be #1 on my hit list. Austerity budgets are NOT good for the taxpayers due to crappy NYS laws.
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Old 11-14-2011, 09:48 AM
 
1,610 posts, read 3,839,293 times
Reputation: 693
New York needs to become a right to work state with term limits
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:15 AM
 
3,447 posts, read 3,513,903 times
Reputation: 3079
Quote:
Originally Posted by nassau2suffolk View Post
Come Pequa, you're smarter than that. Something as sensational as a municipal bankruptcy isn't necessary. Everything you mentioned can be achieved through legislation and most of those items are in Cuomo's tier 6 proposal. While it wasn't acted on this past year, you would have to be blind not to see this becoming reality. (not saying you are blind, just in general)
Tier 6 will -NOT- resolve the problem we have today.
Overall operating retirement systems will see LESS than 1% of an increase over the next 5 years if only Tier 6 employees are hired from today forward. (likely even less since no agencies are hiring)

Tier 6 is also incredibly unfair to the employees hired after Tier 4.... as Tier 5 lasted what, 2 years?, and Tier 6 employees make RADICALLY higher contributions over the curse of their life, to do what- offset the fact Tier 1 & 2 put NOTHING in.

40 years down the line if everyone were Tier 4 and 5 (as hired employees are today) we won't be in nearly the same dire situation.

The employees who are messing the system up are the ones who put in ZERO, and as equally troubling were the employers who put in an amount that clearly (even with the great rates the plans have received) does not come to amount to half of what those employees will take out.

You can't fix this system from this point on. You NEED to go back and make changes/repairs.

The only currently legal solution is to tax pensioners.
After that point they need to change the state laws to drop down their benefit portions, or move them into bare-bones healthcare programs.

Also, with the economy having such incredibly high unemployment- I still can't see how police, schools, or gov't can justify having a retired employee double-dipping and working at the job.

I do realize this is sometimes a cost cutting method, and how it can be useful- but if the person is willing to work, their retirement should continue to be deferred.

Once again, nothing I advocate here I consider terribly fair or right. Lord knows if someone agreed to something you worked you life at, it certainly should come to fruition. However those promises have come at those cost of the financial stability of nearly every public sector agency of NYS.

Pensioners passing away is currently the only -true- solution to this problem.
Imagine trying to bank on that... this example here is only rhetoric, but very much a possible case- In the Westbury School District, in order to get a new much needed bilingual 2nd grade teacher, the board must wait patiently for two retired teachers in their early 80s to pass away. That will free up $30K a piece in contributions to afford to rebudget that money for a new teacher.

It's all tragic- but again, these mistakes were made by the powers that be long ago. Corporations have all but abandoned them, and some clearly went under because of these mistakes... and I predict before too long we may see the same transparency and poor management affect the Federal Gov't.
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Old 11-14-2011, 10:37 AM
 
Location: Smithtown, NY
1,600 posts, read 3,028,988 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by WithDisp View Post
Tier 6 will -NOT- resolve the problem we have today.
Overall operating retirement systems will see LESS than 1% of an increase over the next 5 years if only Tier 6 employees are hired from today forward. (likely even less since no agencies are hiring)

Tier 6 is also incredibly unfair to the employees hired after Tier 4.... as Tier 5 lasted what, 2 years?, and Tier 6 employees make RADICALLY higher contributions over the curse of their life, to do what- offset the fact Tier 1 & 2 put NOTHING in.

40 years down the line if everyone were Tier 4 and 5 (as hired employees are today) we won't be in nearly the same dire situation.

The employees who are messing the system up are the ones who put in ZERO, and as equally troubling were the employers who put in an amount that clearly (even with the great rates the plans have received) does not come to amount to half of what those employees will take out.

You can't fix this system from this point on. You NEED to go back and make changes/repairs.

The only currently legal solution is to tax pensioners.
After that point they need to change the state laws to drop down their benefit portions, or move them into bare-bones healthcare programs.

Also, with the economy having such incredibly high unemployment- I still can't see how police, schools, or gov't can justify having a retired employee double-dipping and working at the job.

I do realize this is sometimes a cost cutting method, and how it can be useful- but if the person is willing to work, their retirement should continue to be deferred.

Once again, nothing I advocate here I consider terribly fair or right. Lord knows if someone agreed to something you worked you life at, it certainly should come to fruition. However those promises have come at those cost of the financial stability of nearly every public sector agency of NYS.

Pensioners passing away is currently the only -true- solution to this problem.
Imagine trying to bank on that... this example here is only rhetoric, but very much a possible case- In the Westbury School District, in order to get a new much needed bilingual 2nd grade teacher, the board must wait patiently for two retired teachers in their early 80s to pass away. That will free up $30K a piece in contributions to afford to rebudget that money for a new teacher.

It's all tragic- but again, these mistakes were made by the powers that be long ago. Corporations have all but abandoned them, and some clearly went under because of these mistakes... and I predict before too long we may see the same transparency and poor management affect the Federal Gov't.
My point was that a bankruptcy is not necessary, especially for what pequa mentioned.

A good place to start would be to have all current members pay into the system for their whole career, not just the first ten years.

Last edited by nassau2suffolk; 11-14-2011 at 10:58 AM..
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,923,260 times
Reputation: 7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by nassau2suffolk View Post
Come Pequa, you're smarter than that. Something as sensational as a municipal bankruptcy isn't necessary. Everything you mentioned can be achieved through legislation and most of those items are in Cuomo's tier 6 proposal. While it wasn't acted on this past year, you would have to be blind not to see this becoming reality. (not saying you are blind, just in general)
The NYS constitution will need to be changed. NO politician thus far has the balls to (or wants to since they suck off the same teat) call a constitutional convention and have a vote on that change.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,923,260 times
Reputation: 7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The increases for 2013 are going to put all the budgets in serious trouble, remember this is just for the pensions, doesn't include healthcare. I don't know how municipalities are going to pay off these increases.


" The Employees' Retirement System's average contribution rate for 2013 will rise to 18.9 percent of payroll, from 16.3 percent in fiscal year 2012. The Police and Fire Retirement System's contribution rate will increase to 25.8 percent of payroll in 2013, from 21.6 percent in fiscal year 2012. Most local entities pay into the Employees' Retirement System, while the counties, some villages and some police districts pay into both.
.....The TRS contribution rate will rise to 12 percent for its fiscal year 2013, the system reported last week. "
Queens is looking better to me everyday ... although it's part of the same system, the property taxes do not kill (sigh not yet anyway).
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,923,260 times
Reputation: 7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
Best post so far.


Everyone can put all the name calling aside, or the "heros" can put their hyperbole aside...the system can't work.
What is it about that that some people CANNOT UNDERSTAND?

All they do is scream, "Don't give up anything! Raise the taxes to infinity to give the 'public servants' anything and everything they want!"

Some people have absolutely NO UNDERSTANDING of finances.

I wonder what would happen if the Island turned into home to only two types: public servants and their stalwart supporters. I guess they'd end up eating each other alive.
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Old 11-14-2011, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Smithtown, NY
1,600 posts, read 3,028,988 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
The NYS constitution will need to be changed. NO politician thus far has the balls to (or wants to since they suck off the same teat) call a constitutional convention and have a vote on that change.
You would prefer a state bankruptcy to a convention?
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