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View Poll Results: Would you buy an all electric car?
Yes, I'd love a LEAF 8 18.18%
Not yet 19 43.18%
I'd only consider a gas/electric hybrid 17 38.64%
Voters: 44. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 11-18-2011, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,928,273 times
Reputation: 7249

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei27 View Post
At first I would have said no way....not on LI with LIPA's silly "delivery charge"

But, quick and dirty math for JUST the electricity alone (and not the $2K charger)

This is from the Nissan website

Q: Since the Nissan LEAF™ solely runs on electricity, would charging from home dramatically increase my electricity bill?
A: Based on a US average of $0.11/kWh, a full charge will cost about $2.75. It could be even less, if your area has time-of-use rates and you charge at off-peak hours.

LIPA rates are about 0.21/kWh (almost double)...so over $5.50 per charge. I believe a charge gets you 100 miles?

So, if you commute 100 miles a day, you'd pay about $27-$28 a week. At 3.50 a gallon, thats the equivalent of 8 gallons per week.

Maybe it isn't so bad? I have a 45 mile round trip commute and fill up about every 10 days at about $60. Unless I screwed up the math, in my case the costs seem about equal.
I looked at that too.

Do you really think LIPA is going to keep charging the same rate for "filling up" cars?

I don't have much faith in them since they promised that dumping LILCO for them would get us out of being the highest electricity rate in the nation. They lied. Bigtime.

The first thing they will complain about if the electric car catches on is the strain on their resources, as so many people are using electricity instead of gasoline.

And that will turn into a separate meter arrangement for the car charger docking station, NATURALLY at a much higher rate than the plain old "household" electricity costs us.

Anyway it takes the car a long time to "charge up" -- ~7 hours at 220/240V (depending on amperage), about 20 hours at 110/120V. Sure you can plan on doing it overnight but what if there is an emergency and you need the car?

The LEAF is not for me for many reasons, but mainly because I don't trust LIPA.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,928,273 times
Reputation: 7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordon_Byrne View Post
When enough people start using these and they begin to further strain the infrastructure, the need for additional generation will be funded by the ratepayers.
And as per Alexei's calculations, you're not saving ANYTHING on LI with the rates the way they are now. So why bother?

If you take in the cost of purchasing and installing the charging dock, it's a net loss. The website for the LEAF says:

Quote:
The average estimated cost of a standard home charging dock installation in a typical new home is approximately $2,000 plus tax and license fees. Federal tax credits may offset a portion of the costs.

The home charging dock will require a 220/240V 40 amp dedicated circuit connected to a breaker. The charging dock will need to be hard-wired directly to the circuit by a certified electrician.
Don't forget the cost of the electrician's visit!

Sure maybe it's great for the rest of the country who pays an "average" of 11 cents per kwh. THEY will be driving at half the cost of gasoline. NOT us.

Even for "green living" purposes ... as Interlude pointed out ... coal is a major way of generating electricity, so the LEAF is not even all that green either.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:22 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Niagara Falls ON.
10,024 posts, read 10,135,943 times
Reputation: 8868
My rate here in Niagara falls is 6.2 cent per KW/Hr. At that rate I could save some money. All our electricty here is from water power, so it's a pretty green idea.
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Old 11-18-2011, 05:42 PM
 
Location: Fifth moon from Nebula
160 posts, read 270,603 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
And as per Alexei's calculations, you're not saving ANYTHING on LI with the rates the way they are now. So why bother?

If you take in the cost of purchasing and installing the charging dock, it's a net loss. The website for the LEAF says:



Don't forget the cost of the electrician's visit!

Sure maybe it's great for the rest of the country who pays an "average" of 11 cents per kwh. THEY will be driving at half the cost of gasoline. NOT us.

Even for "green living" purposes ... as Interlude pointed out ... coal is a major way of generating electricity, so the LEAF is not even all that green either.
It would be free for me, I'm an electrician. Isn't that portion of the job covered in the docking station installation anyway? The overall cost is hypothetical, as the kwh rate in the model doesn't include your increased delivery charges, taxes, fees, etc...much like your water bill, electric rates go up as usage goes up. It would take a much more thorough analysis to see the benefit. And these cars are not going to run like gas powered ones. You need a little more ooomph to keep up with the LIMAs. I compare it to switching from oil to gas heat...you will always see a savings on paper, but you have to lay out money up front and wait for the net. It's when you see the difference (if ever) that counts. And luxury, to me, is always worth paying a little extra. In this case the luxury is the power of a gas engine.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:06 PM
 
2,748 posts, read 3,011,485 times
Reputation: 2349
The Volt is a cooler concept IMO. Battery powered up to 35 miles or so, then a gas engine to extend you range to over 300 miles. If you don't drive far, you rarely have to use gas. If you have to, you don't run out of power. Best of both worlds.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Fifth moon from Nebula
160 posts, read 270,603 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by Interlude View Post
The Volt is a cooler concept IMO. Battery powered up to 35 miles or so, then a gas engine to extend you range to over 300 miles. If you don't drive far, you rarely have to use gas. If you have to, you don't run out of power. Best of both worlds.
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:26 PM
 
Location: Sound Beach
2,160 posts, read 6,537,293 times
Reputation: 876
The real reason I can't buy one, I guarantee that I would be the first person to:

a) forget that I only have 100 miles before I need a recharge
b) be in the only spot that is JUST too far from a recharging station to make it!
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Old 11-18-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Eastern Long Island
1,280 posts, read 4,177,768 times
Reputation: 749
I'm on my second Prius. I regularly average 48mpg on a tank of gas. Occaisonaly I get as much as 52mpg.
I looked into all green vehicle options before I traded my first Prius in for a new one.
I don't want to give lipa anymore business
I want to have a long travel range if needed
I don't want to pay double the price of a regular car
I want reliable technology

That is why I went with another Prius.
I think the leaf will do very well in other areas with Lower electric rates
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Old 11-18-2011, 10:07 PM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,173 posts, read 5,666,893 times
Reputation: 1349
Default Better off with a prius

If you look at the math that alexei27 provided, it works out to about 5.5 cents of electricity per mile with the LEAF.
A 50mpg prius will cost 7 cents per mile @ $3.50 per gallon. The LEAF is not practical when you consider it easily costs $5000 more upfront (with charging station) for base model, even after the $7500 federal rebate. I think it's going to be a major fail considering the price point.

Other things to consider: owning a leaf could shield you from skyrocketing gas prices. Solar panels are becoming cheaper and cheaper -- if you have the capital or ability to borrow at very low costs, a solar system to offset the higher electric use would make a lot of financial sense. There are still rebates available for solar installations and LIPA even has a $500 rebate if you buy a Volt (why wasn't Volt included in this poll??) or LEAF.

All in all, I don't think it makes sense at the current time to invest in a LEAF. You're better off going with a Prius or even a Volt -- where you still have the convenience of being able to use gas and not worry about long-range trips. I'd even take a Nissan Versa over the LEAF. It's half the price @ $14k (after LEAF rebate) and gets over 30mpg, for basically the same type of car. KellyFG pretty much summed up the major reasons it's tough to justify shelling out for this type of EV.

Also, NY's electricity comes from these sources in the chart below (from 2003, so solar may be a larger source today): And why are we still using OIL to generate 12% of our electricity in NY !?




Quote:
Originally Posted by alexei27 View Post
At first I would have said no way....not on LI with LIPA's silly "delivery charge"

But, quick and dirty math for JUST the electricity alone (and not the $2K charger)

This is from the Nissan website

Q: Since the Nissan LEAF™ solely runs on electricity, would charging from home dramatically increase my electricity bill?
A: Based on a US average of $0.11/kWh, a full charge will cost about $2.75. It could be even less, if your area has time-of-use rates and you charge at off-peak hours.

LIPA rates are about 0.21/kWh (almost double)...so over $5.50 per charge. I believe a charge gets you 100 miles?

So, if you commute 100 miles a day, you'd pay about $27-$28 a week. At 3.50 a gallon, thats the equivalent of 8 gallons per week.

Maybe it isn't so bad? I have a 45 mile round trip commute and fill up about every 10 days at about $60. Unless I screwed up the math, in my case the costs seem about equal.

Last edited by Pequaman; 11-18-2011 at 10:31 PM..
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Old 11-18-2011, 11:09 PM
 
2,852 posts, read 2,848,614 times
Reputation: 1172
No, because I don't think the .gov should be subsidizing peoples purchases.
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