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I'm on my second Prius. I regularly average 48mpg on a tank of gas. Occaisonaly I get as much as 52mpg.
I looked into all green vehicle options before I traded my first Prius in for a new one.
I don't want to give lipa anymore business
I want to have a long travel range if needed
I don't want to pay double the price of a regular car
I want reliable technology
That is why I went with another Prius.
I think the leaf will do very well in other areas with Lower electric rates
I think that we, too, will get a Prius. We like to keep options open.
I read an article about, I think it was the Volt.
A Volt got in an accident. Days later the battery caught on fire. The government is now taking a second look at the safety of lithium batteries. The car was not running when the fire broke out
The Prius is not using a lithium battery.
Last edited by goldengrain; 11-19-2011 at 04:56 PM..
What's to say people aren't making a good decision by not buying an electric car that doesn't meet their needs?
What if the car does meet their needs but they're just dumb and want a Suburban because it looks cool? They certainly have the right, but we can try to provide incentives to smarter buying.
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I've still yet to hear from the electric crowd as to what happens when I run out of juice? Is the Dept of Energy investing in tow trucks?
Same thing that happens when you run out of gas? Also, not all of them are pure electric. The Volt just switches over to a gas engine when you run out of juice.
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A lot of good points raised. Is the car really green when dirty methods are used to produce that electricity. What will happen when electrical systems are strained? Will the companys decide that cars are not a priority and must be off the grid? When the car is rated at @100miles on a charge how do you calculate when you are stuck in bumper to bumper traffic, not that it ever happans on LI.
Can anyone comment how these cars respond in snow? I am curious..
If it was a good idea and people would actually save money doing it, you wouldn't need a subsidy.
I kinda agree with you on this but let's not forget the subsidies going towards other forms of fuel- (oil & gas, offshore drilling, shale, ethanol, etc.). Technically, gas automobiles are already being heavily subsidized by the Govt.
I don't think it's all that bad an idea to subsidize new technologies like EVs. The prius and the hybrid market would not be where it is today if it wasn't for these subsidies.. they allow manufacturers to scale production and the industry to expand. With this particular LEAF model however, I think it's wasted money. It's not a mainstream vehicle at all. I could see a niche market possibly with small businesses, rental agencies, etc, in low cost electricity areas. Other than that, the govt is probably better off putting up solar panels on every home and building, if they really want to make the US energy independent. That alone will make EVs more attractive even without a subsidy and will reduce use of other traditional fuels.
What if the car does meet their needs but they're just dumb and want a Suburban because it looks cool? They certainly have the right, but we can try to provide incentives to smarter buying.
"We" meaning who, the taxpayer or the centralized planners?
Why are you assuming that the consumer is "just dumb"? If something is insanely great for the price and will make their life better, then the consumer will choose it.
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Originally Posted by Interlude
Same thing that happens when you run out of gas?
You mean I walk 4 miles to a gas station and return with a gallon of gas, dump it in the tank and continue back to the nearest gas station to refuel in under an hour? I didn't know a 100% electric could do that.
Why are you assuming that the consumer is "just dumb"? If something is insanely great for the price and will make their life better, then the consumer will choose it.
Let me put it in words you can relate to - given your posts, I assume that you didn't vote for Obama. Yet he won the election. In your view, did the people who voted for him make a rational decision and elect someone who will make their life better?]
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You mean I walk 4 miles to a gas station and return with a gallon of gas, dump it in the tank and continue back to the nearest gas station to refuel in under an hour? I didn't know a 100% electric could do that.
Buy a AAA membership. Or take advantage of the free roadside assistance that many car manufacturers offer with new purchases. Or just don't run out of juice.
Let me put it in words you can relate to - given your posts, I assume that you didn't vote for Obama. Yet he won the election. In your view, did the people who voted for him make a rational decision and elect someone who will make their life better?]
The voters selected the person they thought would make their life better, obviously it didn't work out that way. On the other hand I voted for McCain based on my belief that Obama was an empty suit that would do more harm than good. I wouldn't say most folks who voted for Obama were "just dumb" (to use your words) or irrational, but they bought a fairly unknown product based on a sales pitch (Hope and change).
Now if I have a short commute (well under 100 miles a week), in a Goldilocks geographic location, with inexpensive electricity available, with expensive gas, and the knowledge that I'll likely not see a return on my investment in a 100% electric vehicle, then a Leaf might be a good choice.
I would never buy an electric car as my primary vehicle. Can't get over the range limitations, which I don't believe will ever increase significantly. Why? Over a hundred years ago, at the dawn of the automobile - there were several electric car manufacturers and they were fairly popular. There were charging stations on the streets of every large city in America for a brief period.
In 1909, a Baker Electric had a range of 110 miles on a full charge.
In 2011, a Nissan LEAF has a range of (at best) 110 miles on a full charge.
The technology is obviously a dead end. Sure, there are some people who they make sense for... who maybe only need to drive 20 miles a day or what-have-you... but that's a very limited segment of the market. What happens if you need to drive out of state one day? What happens if the power goes out for a week again? You've gotta go rent something... which is a PITA and defeats the purpose of owning a car in the first place. People want to buy cars so that they can drive them - wherever and whenever - and personally I would never want to spend that much money on something that is essentially just another appliance. Additionally, no matter how well you keep up on maintenance - eventually the batteries will wear out and you will significantly lose range over time. How crappy is that? You drive one of these things to work every day for 8 years and then poof - it can only do 70 miles on a full charge instead of 100 and you're stuck. Toss it in the garbage or spend $4k on new batteries. None of these companies will ever be able to sell these things at a high enough volume to turn a consistent profit.
Now plug-in hybrids like the Chevy Volt on the other hand, I think are completely brilliant. It offers you the absolute best of both worlds. When more of those vehicles become available and the price comes down, I think we'll see them explode in popularity. IMO hybrids (especially the plug-in variety) are here to stay, while purely electric vehicles are just a nice idea that will never make sense in the real world.
What I don't understand is why Natural Gas is being ignored as a potential fuel source. It is abundant and cheap in the United States and can be liquified so that existing gasoline fueling stations could be easily converted. But, for some reason, the government (and by extension the automobile companies) are ignoring this, our best alternative fuel.
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Originally Posted by TomMoser
What I don't understand is why Natural Gas is being ignored as a potential fuel source. It is abundant and cheap in the United States and can be liquified so that existing gasoline fueling stations could be easily converted. But, for some reason, the government (and by extension the automobile companies) are ignoring this, our best alternative fuel.
Like Hydrogen how do you establish a safe chain of filling stations so a person can travel. Actually the all-electric car will have the same problem limiting it to a short hop car..
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