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Old 11-20-2011, 07:22 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,624 posts, read 8,113,732 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky25 View Post
You think your tax's are high now? ENOUGH with the multi-levels of goverment!
Unfortunately consolidated governments are too centralized and not responsive to individual communities.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:47 PM
 
1,481 posts, read 2,707,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Unfortunately consolidated governments are too centralized and not responsive to individual communities.
I agree 100%. But at the same time, I read posts on here about how high taxes are, over paid cops, teachers, superintendents, ect....

It all sounds great! But it all comes with a price tag.
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Old 11-20-2011, 07:48 PM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,173 posts, read 5,665,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky25 View Post
You think your tax's are high now? ENOUGH with the multi-levels of goverment!
So consolidating everything is better??

Let's look at some examples:

LIPA - Island wide public benefit corporation - Most expensive electricity in the country

NCPD & SCPD - County wide police departments - Most expensive PD's in the country

MTA- Public Benefit Corp serving 12 counties throughout the NY Metro area - Most wasteful, most expensive public transportation in the country.

-----
Local Water Districts (multi-layer municipalities)- Some of the best & cheapest water in the country

Local Sanitation Districts (multi-layer municipalities) - Works great and only costs about $3 a garbage/recycling day
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:20 PM
 
1,144 posts, read 2,168,606 times
Reputation: 489
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
So consolidating everything is better??

Let's look at some examples:

LIPA - Island wide public benefit corporation - Most expensive electricity in the country

NCPD & SCPD - County wide police departments - Most expensive PD's in the country

MTA- Public Benefit Corp serving 12 counties throughout the NY Metro area - Most wasteful, most expensive public transportation in the country.

-----
Local Water Districts (multi-layer municipalities)- Some of the best & cheapest water in the country

Local Sanitation Districts (multi-layer municipalities) - Works great and only costs about $3 a garbage/recycling day
Explain NYC Police, Fire, Sanitation, Water etc. All far cheaper that Long Island, and more centralized

LIPA's rates are second to Con Edison. Shocked the hell out of me, but my parents pay about a penny more a kilowatthour.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:22 PM
 
1,144 posts, read 2,168,606 times
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To the OP, Lindenhurst DID have it's own police force, as did all villages & towns in Suffolk county. In 1960, all the police departments of the 5 western suffolk towns were merged into the newly formed Suffolk County Police Department
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:32 PM
 
Location: Long Island
29,515 posts, read 12,340,427 times
Reputation: 6101
Quote:
Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean View Post
No villages on Long Island, or anywhere in New York, have their own school districts. I don't believe they're granted that power in the village charter. In most cases, school districts are an entirely separate government entity from the town (er.. hamlet or village) they share their name with.

However, cities can (and do) have their own school districts. In both Glen Cove and Long Beach the city government operates the schools. Long Beach is kind of a unique situation because the city district serves areas outside it's boundaries as well.

Now as far as should these smaller municipalities handle services normally provided by the town or county? I don't really know. In terms of cost, I think you'll find that sometimes the village does it cheaper, sometimes it becomes considerably more expensive. Freeport, for instance, generates it's own electricity independent of LIPA and they have consistently lower rates. When a village provides a service normally provided by the county or town, it's residents pay a discounted rate on their town/county property taxes for those categories. So someone living in Rockville Centre is paying both an NCPD tax and village police tax, but the NCPD rate is considerably lower than it would be in an unincorporated area.

From a common sense standpoint, of course it should be cheaper if all these services were consolidated under one branch of government... but since our towns and counties aren't all that great at running things in a cost effective manner - a lot of times it actually works out where "duplication of services" is cheaper or negligible. Lots of people seem to feel having more localized government is a benefit as well. Other times, the villages are just as poorly run and awful at spending money as their larger counterparts.

Lower rates for power are one thing, and they are lower in Freeport and RVC, but RVC has very high village taxes mostly due to their own police and also they pay some employees in the fire department. Aside from the cheap power issues I'm not sure they are cheaper than the county, from what I have seen the PD salaries are very similar to the county, if not more and they use the county central OPD services. Last year RVC Village taxes went up 10%.

Yes the county does not do a great job controlling costs but in reailty neither do the villages. Most residents cannot even come close to having an understanding of the various districts, sewage, schools, villages, towns, counties, water, sanitation, it's an impossible situation. Do you think anyone in Oceanside votes for the sanitation commissioners or knows what water district they are in, the people who run these fiefdoms know the answer to that and have taken advantage.


The county level would be the best place for all of these disricts, at least it would be a starting point for consolidation as they have done in other states.
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:36 PM
 
Location: Long Island
29,515 posts, read 12,340,427 times
Reputation: 6101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
So consolidating everything is better??

Let's look at some examples:

LIPA - Island wide public benefit corporation - Most expensive electricity in the country

NCPD & SCPD - County wide police departments - Most expensive PD's in the country

MTA- Public Benefit Corp serving 12 counties throughout the NY Metro area - Most wasteful, most expensive public transportation in the country.

-----
Local Water Districts (multi-layer municipalities)- Some of the best & cheapest water in the country

Local Sanitation Districts (multi-layer municipalities) - Works great and only costs about $3 a garbage/recycling day
The village PD's have not been addressed, I think you will find them similar to the county. Local water and sanitation is cheaper, compare to what district?
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Old 11-20-2011, 08:39 PM
 
1,481 posts, read 2,707,131 times
Reputation: 978
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pequaman View Post
So consolidating everything is better??

Let's look at some examples:

LIPA - Island wide public benefit corporation - Most expensive electricity in the country

NCPD & SCPD - County wide police departments - Most expensive PD's in the country

MTA- Public Benefit Corp serving 12 counties throughout the NY Metro area - Most wasteful, most expensive public transportation in the country.

-----
Local Water Districts (multi-layer municipalities)- Some of the best & cheapest water in the country

Local Sanitation Districts (multi-layer municipalities) - Works great and only costs about $3 a garbage/recycling day
So you do not think the school system (most of our taxes go) should be handled by "Suffolk County" & "Nassau County"? Instead of EACH town having its own school district. With all the administrators, commities, directors, board of directors, ect........ Along with superintendents & "DEPUTY Superintendent" (REALLY??) MAKING 300K-500k+++++ in EVERY school district.
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Old 11-20-2011, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,173 posts, read 5,665,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky25 View Post
So you do not think the school system (most of our taxes go) should be handled by "Suffolk County" & "Nassau County"? Instead of EACH town having its own school district. With all the administrators, commities, directors, board of directors, ect........ Along with superintendents & "DEPUTY Superintendent" (REALLY??) MAKING 300K-500k+++++ in EVERY school district.
No, I don't think it will make much of a difference in cost. There's definitely some waste, maybe a few too many admin and supts, but even cutting those few positions would not make much of a difference. Consolidating into county-wide districts will most likely worsen the majority of districts. It's not much cheaper in the biggest consolidated dysfunctional district (NYC), than it is in our larger LI districts> Spending per pupil in NY state districts | rocdocs.democratandchronicle.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
The village PD's have not been addressed, I think you will find them similar to the county. Local water and sanitation is cheaper, compare to what district?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckthedog View Post
Explain NYC Police, Fire, Sanitation, Water etc. All far cheaper that Long Island, and more centralized

LIPA's rates are second to Con Edison. Shocked the hell out of me, but my parents pay about a penny more a kilowatthour.
Local water & sanitation compared to most areas in the country, including NYC. According to this article New York City Water Rates Expected to Rise 11.5 Percent - New York Times, the average annual residential water bill for NYC was $699 in 2007 nonetheless. I pay a lot less than that through Massapequa Water District (probably half that in 2011)..most of it being on my property tax bill with 2 small semi-annual bills. Average water use.. and it's more of a 'use it or lose it' type deal.

NYPD's latest budget is around $4.2-$4.3 Billion. That's about 7 times the size of the budget dedicated to NCPD. Granted NYPD does have 15 TIMES as many officers ~35k vs 2.4k and 10x as many precincts... But it only serves 6 times as many people in NYC (8.2M) vs 1.3M in Nassau. Theyre pretty close actually in cost. NYC & NCPD (SCPD too) are all on the top 20 list of most expensive PDs. I don't know where the villages fall in but isn't the pay generally based on what the county going rate is for an officer?

I'm not sure on sanitation, but I can't imagine NYC provides as good service nor is as cheap as our local sanitation district. Aren't they like garbage nazis in NYC?? shaking bags and fining everyone that has metal or plastic in their bags... ?? Con Ed definitely surprised me too, but the point is that consolidating things doesn't make it cheaper; especially when you're dealing with UNIONS in NY and people milking taxpayers. I think it depends on the service as well. If you could find some concrete budget numbers to prove Fire is cheaper (I'm sure it is cheaper in NYC as we have Fire McMansions & Fire Escalades on LI) or any of the other services, that would be interesting to look at.

Last edited by Pequaman; 11-20-2011 at 09:38 PM..
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Old 11-21-2011, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,416 posts, read 27,923,260 times
Reputation: 7249
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckthedog View Post
Explain NYC Police, Fire, Sanitation, Water etc. All far cheaper that Long Island, and more centralized

LIPA's rates are second to Con Edison. Shocked the hell out of me, but my parents pay about a penny more a kilowatthour.
Easy. The political connectedness and power of the unions.

Note how every single job EXCEPT public school teacher and police officer pays MORE in New York City than on Long Island. Considerably more.

Now why are these two professions' compensation flipped so that the ones working on Long Island are paid considerably more than the ones working in NYC?

The public sector unions in NYC are not as politically connected and powerful as the ones on LI. Therefore the members in NYC are not earning the "windfall" those on LI are.

Yet another reason public sector unions have no place in the 21st century.
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