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Old 03-15-2012, 02:09 PM
 
4,995 posts, read 3,897,811 times
Reputation: 3601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan View Post
It is a myth that unions created the middle class.

At the end of WWII and through the early 1960s, the U.S. and Canada had hardly any competition in world trade as the European and Japanese economies were in poor shape, to say the least, and it would take them the good part of a generation to offer any real competition to the U.S. and Canada.

Meanwhile, union excesses built up in the U.S. and when imports from Europe and Japan started arriving on our shores, many industries, especially the highly unionized auto industry could no longer compete.
The thread has left the building!!!

 
Old 03-15-2012, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
19,024 posts, read 16,838,454 times
Reputation: 15398
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombero2811 View Post
you say ''Down with the Unions'', you should really read up on the history of unions and how important they were and still are to building the USA. Say goobye to middle class, look at right to work states and the terrible pay and work conditions.
I have read the history and won't argue there was a time & purpose for them, but not now. In most industries they have abused the power they earned and seek only to ensure their survival. Why don't you look at a right to work state before assuming that we are being taken advantage of..
 
Old 03-15-2012, 04:09 PM
 
19,601 posts, read 20,426,931 times
Reputation: 16263
Unions suck unless you are a member.
 
Old 03-15-2012, 06:23 PM
 
13,506 posts, read 16,958,334 times
Reputation: 9684
Quote:
Originally Posted by bombero2811 View Post
you say ''Down with the Unions'', you should really read up on the history of unions and how important they were and still are to building the USA. Say goobye to middle class, look at right to work states and the terrible pay and work conditions.
The only powerful unions left are those for municipal workers, and they benefit off the backs of all the private sector people who haven't had union represetation in a long time. The corrections officers crying on the radio about "losing their pensions", when the truth is that they've only been scaled back, and mostly for new workers. $0 towards health care, $0 towards retirement. Unsustainable, unfair to the taxpayer. I feel bad for the all people working crazy hours in retail, barely getting by on LI. Those are the people who need a union.

I know, "they made a bad career choice".

ya'all know where you can stick that.
 
Old 03-15-2012, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Long Island, N.Y.
119 posts, read 256,403 times
Reputation: 73
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
The only powerful unions left are those for municipal workers, and they benefit off the backs of all the private sector people who haven't had union represetation in a long time. The corrections officers crying on the radio about "losing their pensions", when the truth is that they've only been scaled back, and mostly for new workers. $0 towards health care, $0 towards retirement. Unsustainable, unfair to the taxpayer. I feel bad for the all people working crazy hours in retail, barely getting by on LI. Those are the people who need a union.

I know, "they made a bad career choice".

ya'all know where you can stick that.
People who work retail do have a union. When I did I was in a union. Cops and Firefighters shouldn't have to pay for healthcare because a lot of the health issues they have arise from the job that other professions don't have to worry about, such as retail workers. Retail workers don't have to worry about getting shot investigating a burglary, hit by a car, inhaling smoke and other garbage during a fire trying to rescue someone, injurying themselves in a pursuit, etc during the course of their employment.

At the same time the state is doing this, they are pondering whether to give illegal immigrants college tuition aid and other benefits. The reason this state is going broke is because of the benefits we give those who give nothing back in return. At least people in civil service earn their pensions.

Last edited by L.I.N.Y.; 03-15-2012 at 06:39 PM..
 
Old 03-15-2012, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Nassau, Long Island, NY
16,408 posts, read 33,189,052 times
Reputation: 7337
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.N.Y. View Post
People who work retail do have a union. When I did I was in a union. Cops and Firefighters shouldn't have to pay for healthcare because a lot of the health issues they have arise from the job that other professions don't have to worry about, such as retail workers. Retail workers don't have to worry about getting shot investigating a burglary, hit by a car, inhaling smoke and other garbage during a fire trying to rescue someone, injurying themselves in a pursuit, etc during the course of their employment.
LOL. That's hilarious! I bet retail workers get shot a lot more often than cops and firefighters do. ESPECIALLY on Long Island. Try telling that to a bank, convenience store, bodega, deli worker. (Do bank tellers count as retail workers too?) They all have plenty to worry about and have similar things in common: NOT compensated like corporate executives for a minimal education, have to buy their own clothes for work (not uniforms), NOT able to collect pensions and free healthcare EARLY IN LIFE and work another full time job at the same time, etc., etc. ... need I go on?
 
Old 03-15-2012, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,868 posts, read 25,799,606 times
Reputation: 15435
Quote:
Originally Posted by L.I.N.Y. View Post
People who work retail do have a union. When I did I was in a union. Cops and Firefighters shouldn't have to pay for healthcare because a lot of the health issues they have arise from the job that other professions don't have to worry about, such as retail workers. Retail workers don't have to worry about getting shot investigating a burglary, hit by a car, inhaling smoke and other garbage during a fire trying to rescue someone, injurying themselves in a pursuit, etc during the course of their employment.

At the same time the state is doing this, they are pondering whether to give illegal immigrants college tuition aid and other benefits. The reason this state is going broke is because of the benefits we give those who give nothing back in return. At least people in civil service earn their pensions.
Well then, maybe construction workers and fishermen should not have to pay for their health care either since they have an extremely high injury and fatality rate? Almost 60% of NCPD sit behind a desk and never see the street, should they be given full health care?

There are plenty of public unions faring quite well in NYC and elsewhere, plumbers, electricians, those working on the movie sets in Queens and the Javits Center. All the stadiums that were built in the area the last few years were built by union labor, some very good workers, many not so good.

I was hoping we could make it through one post about unions without blaming wall street, the illegals, social programs, Iran, still there is hope.
 
Old 03-15-2012, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Long Island
56,868 posts, read 25,799,606 times
Reputation: 15435
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeyQueens View Post
It is, but the scare tactics will win out again and the majority of the budgets will pass, as usual.

"Do it for the kids!"
Last year was bad, the pension shortfall will be worse this year, and next year, the numbers are staggering.This was masked over in previous years due to federal funds that have dissapeared. Districts are now lobbying NYS for additional funds, and the comptroller DiNapoli is offering borrowing for the districts to meet their budgets, big mistake.
 
Old 03-15-2012, 08:20 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,838,716 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but View Post
LOL. That's hilarious! I bet retail workers get shot a lot more often than cops and firefighters do. ESPECIALLY on Long Island. Try telling that to a bank, convenience store, bodega, deli worker. (Do bank tellers count as retail workers too?) They all have plenty to worry about and have similar things in common: NOT compensated like corporate executives for a minimal education, have to buy their own clothes for work (not uniforms), NOT able to collect pensions and free healthcare EARLY IN LIFE and work another full time job at the same time, etc., etc. ... need I go on?
The difference, Moderator cut: derogatory name-calling is that those other people who get shot at just happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Cops, on the other hand are shot at for one of two reasons: They're deliberately confronting a bad guy with a gun. Or simply because they're a cop wearing a blue uniform.

And I'm always amazed at those of you who look down their noses at cops because of what you deem to be "minimal" education. You'd be surprised at the amount of education the average cop has (including my graduate degree earned while you were still in diapers.)

The way you continually rant about all the "perks" that cops get, one might conclude that you have a pretty miserable life. I guess being home with the kids all day with nothing to do than whine on these chat boards does that to you.

Last edited by nancy thereader; 03-16-2012 at 07:47 PM..
 
Old 03-15-2012, 08:22 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,838,716 times
Reputation: 509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
Last year was bad, the pension shortfall will be worse this year, and next year, the numbers are staggering.This was masked over in previous years due to federal funds that have dissapeared. Districts are now lobbying NYS for additional funds, and the comptroller DiNapoli is offering borrowing for the districts to meet their budgets, big mistake.
The pension system doesn't get federal funds. The reason for the shortfall was that the system collected less than 1% of payroll during the go-go stock market years of the 90s. And now the politicians and all of the municipalities who didn't anticipate a day of reckoning are paying the piper. It's all about politics.
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