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Old 05-24-2012, 11:39 AM
 
8,681 posts, read 7,797,116 times
Reputation: 14954

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragazza89 View Post
You're right, believe me, I have a bunch of friends who have already lost their jobs, including my fiance...But I think teacher lay offs could be prevented if those at the very top took a pay cut to save the jobs of their fellow co-workers at the bottom. They always cut the young ones from the bottom b/c they're not tenured and they're easily disposable. Honestly, the cuts should really start at the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by veryangry View Post
So how would YOU feel if you worked at a job 20 years, and the place had to start laying off people. If you were a senior person there you'd volunteer then to leave right, since that would be the right thing to do? That's the logic you just proposed.
Ragazza suggested a pay cut, not that the senior folks volunteer to leave. Big difference.

And yes, as idealistic as it sounds, the term "union" implies that they are unified, all for one and one for all, not "I have 20 years in so screw the people who only have 5."

But as with anything else, those at the top will act in their self-interest even if it harms those at the bottom. Welcome to America. That's how this country works, and New York and Long Island are no different.

If the government gets hung up on salary, they can offer early outs. I'm not sure what the required length of service is for teachers, but if I were a civil servant and I were offered early outs, regardless of what I did for a living, I'd be out so quickly there would be smoke behind me, even if it meant taking proportionately less in a pension. That's just me.

There are a lot of issues in the educational system here that can and should be addressed long before it comes to that, though. Indeed, there are a lot of issues that can and should be addressed within both counties long before it comes to that. Start with getting rid of patronage.

Last edited by Yzette; 05-24-2012 at 12:07 PM.. Reason: The Department of Redundancy Department called.

 
Old 05-24-2012, 11:55 AM
 
7,338 posts, read 7,853,131 times
Reputation: 2903
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
I'm not sure if Dorothy meant only LI schools are failing our kids. Maybe she did, not sure. I think your wife, as a teacher, would agree that there is way too much crap going on in the schools diverting her and other teachers from reading, writing, and 'rithmetic. That's a nationwide problem. Despite all my rhetoric I will admit that teachers have way too much crapola to deal with aside from actually teaching. However, as someone who has lived on LI and elsewhere, I will say that LIers are absolutely getting a declining return on their investment....no one can possibly make the argument that "well my taxes were only $4,500 when I bought this house and now they're $15K, but it's all right because the education just keeps getting better and better". You also have people in the position of "hey, my friend 5 blocks over only pays $7500 and I pay $12, 500 - what am I getting that they don't get?"

Of course this is my take on it. Maybe Dorothy does feel that the schools are failing, but her kids were in parochial school on LI so I'm not sure.
Again, it's a question of hyperbole.

Someone is pissed about high taxes, so they going around saying "The schools are failing our kids!!" and "schools in North Carolina are better than on LI".

NO THEY AREN'T on the first, and B....S... on the second. .

LI schools cost too much. That's the issue. Unfortunately you have the foaming at the mouth types who think you have to slander the whole system and everybody involved because it costs too much. Same thing with the SCPD. From everything I can see, it's a good police force. They just cost way too much.

NCPD seems to be a different story with some of the scandals going on.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 11:57 AM
 
7,338 posts, read 7,853,131 times
Reputation: 2903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
Ragazza suggested a pay cut, not that the senior folks volunteer to leave. Big difference.

And yes, as idealistic as it sounds, the term "union" implies that they are unified, all for one and one for all, not "I have 20 years in so screw the people who only have 5."

But as with anything else, those at the top will act in their self-interest even if it harms those at the bottom. Welcome to America. That's how this country works, and New York and Long Island are no different.

If the government gets hung up on salary, they can offer early outs. I'm not sure what the required length of service is for teachers, but if I were a civil servant and I were offered early outs, regardless of what I did for a living, I'd be out so quickly there would be smoke behind me, even if it meant taking proportionately less in a pension. That's just me.

There are a lot of issues in the educational system here that can and should be addressed long before it comes to that, though. Indeed, there are a lot of issues that can be addressed within both counties that can and should be addressed long before it comes to that. Start with getting rid of patronage.
With the new tier 6 and lower starting salaries, it seems like schools should be offering early retirement packages to the 20+ year folks in mass, but I haven't heard of it happening.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Centereach
429 posts, read 535,476 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yzette View Post
That's no different than the private sector, where the last one hired is the first one fired.



That doesn't happen in the private sector. It's always the new ones and the rank and file who get shafted while the ones at the top preserve their self-interest. Why would this be any different?

I do agree in theory, however, and I do feel that there is absolutely no earthly good reason that school administrators should make the obscene amounts the ones on Long Island do.
Have to disagree there. Many private companies lay off senior workers since they can hire two or three out of college for the same salary. Next step is to out source to India.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 12:58 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
9,127 posts, read 10,709,161 times
Reputation: 5107
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike50 View Post
When my children were younger they didn't mine all sleeping together in one room or maybe two in one room but as they become teenagers that all changes rather quickly.

.
I'll be there soon enough Mike! Dreading it! But the fact is, let's agree that for someone who doesn't even have kids to be worrying about needing 4BR is a little silly (yes, I saw her post about the sarcasm!)

I agree that the biggest problem is that it's not an option on LI. Where I live that option does exist, at a variety of price points even (maybe you get 3 BR instead of 4, or no bonus room....but for $200K who can quibble)....I'm sure it's the same where you live.

I truly feel for a young couple starting out buying a complete dump of a house on LI. It was somewhat palatable when those houses were going for $175K. Most of my friends bought such homes in the 1990s, when we were in our 20s, and put in some sweat equity to upgrade the places slowly. Buying a house in your 20s nowadays is practically unfathomable nowadays. And then to think about fixing it up on top of that....
 
Old 05-24-2012, 01:12 PM
 
8,681 posts, read 7,797,116 times
Reputation: 14954
Quote:
Originally Posted by corky101 View Post
Have to disagree there. Many private companies lay off senior workers since they can hire two or three out of college for the same salary. Next step is to out source to India.
True, but I think it depends on the industry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
I'll be there soon enough Mike! Dreading it! But the fact is, let's agree that for someone who doesn't even have kids to be worrying about needing 4BR is a little silly (yes, I saw her post about the sarcasm!)

I agree that the biggest problem is that it's not an option on LI. Where I live that option does exist, at a variety of price points even (maybe you get 3 BR instead of 4, or no bonus room....but for $200K who can quibble)....I'm sure it's the same where you live.

I truly feel for a young couple starting out buying a complete dump of a house on LI. It was somewhat palatable when those houses were going for $175K. Most of my friends bought such homes in the 1990s, when we were in our 20s, and put in some sweat equity to upgrade the places slowly. Buying a house in your 20s nowadays is practically unfathomable nowadays. And then to think about fixing it up on top of that....
Then we come back to the question of why a young couple would look here to begin with, and whether someone is entitled to have something in a particular location just because they want it.

When you're young, it's easier to make sacrifices, be flexible, and move around a bit. Young people adapt more easily. Or, that's how it should be, IMHO. That seems to be lost on many young people these days. Not all, but many can't seem to wrap their heads around the fact that their choices are to pay a lot for something that requires a lot of work, or move elsewhere and get more for what little money they make early in their careers. That really goes for everyone, actually. I'd love a home in Pacific Heights in San Francisco. It's not looking likely any time soon. Life is so unfair.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 01:22 PM
 
855 posts, read 753,759 times
Reputation: 407
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Actually you don't. Gotta give this round to Galicia. I have 3 kids and if they have their druthers they all sleep in the same bedroom - and they aren't little anymore - two 11 year olds and an 8 year old. I have a 5 BR house BTW. No lack of room for them.

When I lived on LI I knew a lady with 5 kids who bought a 6 BR house to accomodate them. She said it was a waste of money - same as me, her kids were happiest sleeping in 2 BRs...older kids in one, younger kids in another.

I'm not disagreeing about the COL. If you WANT that house you describe, it's almost unattainable not just because of price but simply because of the aged housing stock that wasn't built that way.
I grew up in a 1000sqft converted summer bungalow with 3 brothers. The close quarters was definitely the reason we are as close today. One of the reasons many people give for staying on LI is the close family. Most of these people grew up in small homes without all the luxuries of today. Parents these days allow their kids to sit in a room all day with their video games or cell phones not even interacting with eachother. All of this is a big part of the reason that society and mankind is declining rapidly. Sounds like you are doing a good job.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 01:35 PM
 
4,250 posts, read 307,399 times
Reputation: 2067
The schools are failing the kids in my opinion because there are too many kids in the buildings (1400 for two grades in Longwood), fights, too much emphasis on special education, too many distractions in the classrooms (lets mainstream), too many rights for kids and teachers. The run around is horrendous ; I deal with both Longwood and Patchogue Medford. And I also deal with parochial school.

If you go to any of the school report sites (education.com and greatschools.net) both schools above rate a 6/7 ; some are 4/5. If you go to the same sites for other states and districts outside this area ; they rate a 9/10. For the amount of taxes we pay here on the island, we should be rating an 11.

Gov. Cuomo has an ad running also saying the same thing.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 01:46 PM
 
Location: Massapequa Park
3,173 posts, read 3,486,144 times
Reputation: 1320
Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
The schools are failing the kids in my opinion because there are too many kids in the buildings (1400 for two grades in Longwood), fights, too much emphasis on special education, too many distractions in the classrooms (lets mainstream), too many rights for kids and teachers. The run around is horrendous ; I deal with both Longwood and Patchogue Medford. And I also deal with parochial school.

If you go to any of the school report sites (education.com and greatschools.net) both schools above rate a 6/7 ; some are 4/5. If you go to the same sites for other states and districts outside this area ; they rate a 9/10. For the amount of taxes we pay here on the island, we should be rating an 11.

Gov. Cuomo has an ad running also saying the same thing.
Not all state standardized tests are created equal.

GreatSchools Ratings for New York

GreatSchools Ratings for New York
In calculating these ratings, GreatSchools analyzed the 2009-2010 New York State Assessments and Regents Examiniations for the school and compared them to the test results for all New York schools with the same grade levels.

If there are no GreatSchools Ratings for a school, the school's test results were either not reported or incomplete.

Keep in mind that when comparing schools using GreatSchools Ratings, it's important to factor in other information, including the quality of each school's teachers, the school culture, special programs, etc.

GreatSchools Ratings cannot be compared across states, because of differences in the states' standardized testing programs.
 
Old 05-24-2012, 02:04 PM
 
239 posts, read 244,190 times
Reputation: 236
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
LI schools cost too much. That's the issue. Unfortunately you have the foaming at the mouth types who think you have to slander the whole system and everybody involved because it costs too much. Same thing with the SCPD. From everything I can see, it's a good police force. They just cost way too much.
Everything on LI costs too much. Not just school taxes but housing, auto insurance, gas prices, groceries, and other amenities.

Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
I truly feel for a young couple starting out buying a complete dump of a house on LI. It was somewhat palatable when those houses were going for $175K. Most of my friends bought such homes in the 1990s, when we were in our 20s, and put in some sweat equity to upgrade the places slowly. Buying a house in your 20s nowadays is practically unfathomable nowadays. And then to think about fixing it up on top of that....
Much of the housing stock is a dump on Long Island being small, old, and not having a decent sized property so people can enjoy the outside. It's ridiculous that I can get a newer house 3x the size of the average house on Long Island in Florida, South Carolina, or Colorado that costs less. Long Island housing stock needs to own up to it's worthy price. Being close to NYC isn't a good enough reason to have such high housing prices, especially when other cities in the country are up and coming. Oh and of course the taxes are out of control because there are too many school districts that refuse to merge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Galicia#1 View Post
Most of these people grew up in small homes without all the luxuries of today. Parents these days allow their kids to sit in a room all day with their video games or cell phones not even interacting with eachother. All of this is a big part of the reason that society and mankind is declining rapidly. Sounds like you are doing a good job.
Outside of LI, most bigger houses are on bigger properties with bigger backyards which means more room for children to play outside as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by okaydorothy View Post
The schools are failing the kids in my opinion because there are too many kids in the buildings (1400 for two grades in Longwood), fights, too much emphasis on special education, too many distractions in the classrooms (lets mainstream), too many rights for kids and teachers. The run around is horrendous ; I deal with both Longwood and Patchogue Medford. And I also deal with parochial school.
Kids are failing school because there is fights and emphasis on special education? That doesn't make sense. Explain.

Last edited by JCNNY; 05-24-2012 at 02:19 PM..
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