Schools on Long Island (Levittown, Hauppauge: insurance, colleges, utilities)

[JazzmanLI]

Hey everyone, Is it just me or does it seem schools are still cutting programs from their budget for the 12-13 school year.
Anyone think teachers will be on the rise again? All the school taxes I don't understand how the school budgets can't be doing well.

[WithDisp]

Costs increase-

Outside vendors, insurances (both for staff as well as for accidents that happen on property), teacher pay, contractual obligations to BOCES, electric, bus gas costs, pension contributions, etc.

None of these things will ever decrease, so until the state and federal government start seeing more surpluses, or put more value/emphasis on education the budgets will continue to rise slightly (now capped at 2-ish%), and services thus decline slightly. (The difference between real world 5% and 2-ish%).

The other change will occur if you see a dip of 30 or so children in enrollment in a particular district, while it won't increase number of staff- it can trim an entire position which comes with many costs.

The biggest flaw with the LI school systems is that there is no major industrial or commercial production business to pick up any of the tab. People educate their children here then go for quality colleges and jobs elsewhere. That's not a model for cost efficiency.

[dman72]

[quote=WithDisp;24813495]Costs increase-

Outside vendors, insurances (both for staff as well as for accidents that happen on property), teacher pay, contractual obligations to BOCES, electric, bus gas costs, pension contributions, etc.

None of these things will ever decrease, so until the state and federal government start seeing more surpluses, or put more value/emphasis on education the budgets will continue to rise slightly (now capped at 2-ish%), and services thus decline slightly. (The difference between real world 5% and 2-ish%).

The other change will occur if you see a dip of 30 or so children in enrollment in a particular district, while it won't increase number of staff- it can trim an entire position which comes with many costs.

The biggest flaw with the LI school systems is that there is no major industrial or commercial production business to pick up any of the tab. People educate their children here then go for quality colleges and jobs elsewhere. That's not a model for cost efficiency.[/quote]

Very good point. The most "reasonable" taxes in Suffolk are in Hauppauge, and a big part of that is the commercial/industrial base that the large (although 1/3rd vacant) industrial park provides.

[mongoose65]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Costs increase-

Outside vendors, insurances (both for staff as well as for accidents that happen on property), teacher pay, contractual obligations to BOCES, electric, bus gas costs, pension contributions, etc.

None of these things will ever decrease, so until the state and federal government start seeing more surpluses, or put more value/emphasis on education the budgets will continue to rise slightly (now capped at 2-ish%), and services thus decline slightly. (The difference between real world 5% and 2-ish%).

The other change will occur if you see a dip of 30 or so children in enrollment in a particular district, while it won't increase number of staff- it can trim an entire position which comes with many costs.

The biggest flaw with the LI school systems is that there is no major industrial or commercial production business to pick up any of the tab. People educate their children here then go for quality colleges and jobs elsewhere. That's not a model for cost efficiency.

Of course this will turn into a protracted argument and I will be called a "teacher hater," but the ONLY (substantial) cost increases are salaries and pensions. Fuel, utilities, equipment, insurance (except health), professional services costs are all down, stable or up slightly (i.e lower than CPI). Those "added" costs are completely negligible. The ONLY increases that cause overall budget #'s to go up year over year (aside from State or Fed unfunded mandates which are not on the table this season) are contractual salary increases and pension obligations...period.

The last paragraph is spot on. The tax base keeps shrinking but the promises to the unions never go away. Levittown is a shining example. No industrial base at all so huge tax burden on lower than average LI household incomes.

[kunk10]

lipa picked ours up...until next year

[quote=dman72;24814150]

Originally Posted by WithDisp

Costs increase-

Outside vendors, insurances (both for staff as well as for accidents that happen on property), teacher pay, contractual obligations to BOCES, electric, bus gas costs, pension contributions, etc.

None of these things will ever decrease, so until the state and federal government start seeing more surpluses, or put more value/emphasis on education the budgets will continue to rise slightly (now capped at 2-ish%), and services thus decline slightly. (The difference between real world 5% and 2-ish%).

The other change will occur if you see a dip of 30 or so children in enrollment in a particular district, while it won't increase number of staff- it can trim an entire position which comes with many costs.

The biggest flaw with the LI school systems is that there is no major industrial or commercial production business to pick up any of the tab. People educate their children here then go for quality colleges and jobs elsewhere. That's not a model for cost efficiency.[/quote]

Very good point. The most "reasonable" taxes in Suffolk are in Hauppauge, and a big part of that is the commercial/industrial base that the large (although 1/3rd vacant) industrial park provides.

[LIGuy1202]

Originally Posted by mongoose65

Of course this will turn into a protracted argument and I will be called a "teacher hater," but the ONLY (substantial) cost increases are salaries and pensions. Fuel, utilities, equipment, insurance (except health), professional services costs are all down, stable or up slightly (i.e lower than CPI). Those "added" costs are completely negligible. The ONLY increases that cause overall budget #'s to go up year over year (aside from State or Fed unfunded mandates which are not on the table this season) are contractual salary increases and pension obligations...period.

The last paragraph is spot on. The tax base keeps shrinking but the promises to the unions never go away. Levittown is a shining example. No industrial base at all so huge tax burden on lower than average LI household incomes.

I wonder if many people understand what an "unfunded mandate" is?
Unfunded mandate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Tarag]

Teachers and school employes should pay into there health/dental/retirement fund the tax payers shouldn't have to keep paying all these benefits.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Tarag

Teachers and school employes should pay into there health/dental/retirement fund the tax payers shouldn't have to keep paying all these benefits.

Where have you been all of our lives? Why didn't I THINK of that?

[rprprprp]

Originally Posted by mongoose65

the ONLY (substantial) cost increases are salaries and pensions. Fuel, utilities, equipment, insurance (except health), professional services costs are all down, stable or up slightly (i.e lower than CPI). Those "added" costs are completely negligible. The ONLY increases that cause overall budget #'s to go up year over year (aside from State or Fed unfunded mandates which are not on the table this season) are contractual salary increases and pension obligations...period..

Can we see where the info is with which you are making these ridiculous claims. Fuel, utilities, equipment, insurance are down?? Show me an example from a district please? How could you know that "equipment" cost are down for any, let alone all, districts? You know what equipment each district needs this year?

I love that you completely dismiss unfunded mandates since they aren't on "the table this year". Does that suddenly mean they don't contribute to rising costs? Gov Cuomo and his minions claimed that the tax cap was needed to "hammer" at unfunded mandates and then completely forgot the second part.

Nice logic you have--anything that doesn't fit with your argument is dismissed. I agree with the pension part of your argument but see I am reasonable and don't try to rig the argument.

As I have written before--the tax cap is a bad thing if you don't couple it with real reform of the system so to return to the OP's question:

I think what you will see in the next few years is smaller tax increases with eventual big cuts in services.

[Tarag]

Originally Posted by dman72

Where have you been all of our lives? Why didn't I THINK of that?

So since this has been YOUR idea all along what have you been able to do about it?