What is the most unpretentious upper middle class town on LI? (Hicksville: bankrupt, school)

[Galicia#1]

Originally Posted by ocngypz

Obviously, the wife needs to forget her "dream" hometown and they need to look in other communities. He needs to look at home ownership now based upon maximizing tax advantages. $42,000 is a lot of money to basically throw away each year to keep a roof over one's head.

$20,000 a year taxes on a $600,000 house needing work? I can only imagine what her dream hometown is.

I don't think it's a matter of affording the home. It is more about buying an old house that needs work and still have increasing rediculous taxes every year. RVC is where she grew up. He thinks LI is a terrible place but, like many others has been dragged here kicking and screaming by their wives.

[tcost1082]

Maybe if she wants her dream home she should stop searching for homes on MLSLI all day and gate a job... just saying

[tcost1082]

sorry.. "get" a job

[LIGuy1202]

Originally Posted by h-tonian

Deleted content...

NASSAU HOME VALUES * * * *
Owner-occupied units 363,366


Less than $50,000 3,215
0.9%
$50,000 to $99,999 3,268
0.9%
$100,000 to $149,999 3,485
1.0%
$150,000 to $199,999 5,029
1.4%
$200,000 to $299,999 16,097
4.4%
$300,000 to $499,999 162,740
44.8%
$500,000 to $999,999 141,129
38.8%
$1,000,000 or more 28,403
7.8%
Median (dollars) 487,900
(X)


SUFFOLK HOME VALUE * * * *
Owner-occupied units 403,093


Less than $50,000 4,771
1.2%
$50,000 to $99,999 4,618
1.1%
$100,000 to $149,999 5,154
1.3%
$150,000 to $199,999 8,998
2.2%
$200,000 to $299,999 44,740
11.1%
$300,000 to $499,999 205,109
50.9%
$500,000 to $999,999 110,421
27.4%
$1,000,000 or more 19,282
4.8%
Median (dollars) 424,200
(X)

Looking at these numbers 800k looks like high end middle of the road to me.

BTW, does anyone else notice that the price range is $49,999 and then jumps to $99,999 and then jumps to $199,999 and then jumps to $499,999 and then goes to "$1,000,000 or more".

The US Census Bureau does the same with income data.

This leads one to mentally construct a somewhat symetrical bell curve to imply a fair (and expected) distribution.

Why not keep the price range at $49,999 all the way to the top house value? Usually it's so the middle value has the greatest number, in this case, homes not wage earners. And in this particular listing it's the 6th. category with the most; not the 4th or 5th (which would be the low and high middle of an eight-value chart).

[tcost1082]

The only discernable conclusion from this is that a house over $500K puts you in the 50 percentile of prices in Nassau and close to the upper 30 percentile in Suffolk. As it was just mentioned, the range of 500K to 1 million needs to be broken down further, since we cannot tell where the 800K falls in the distribution. Honestly, I would find it hard to believe that an 800K house would not be considered an upper class price (I bet the distribution would show most homes are closer to 500K and 600K). The income that you need to carry to not only afford the mortgage, but the taxes and maintenance (chances are the house will be larger than normal) is unfathomable to most people. You are talking 180K down, closing costs of 30K, annual taxes of around 18K, mortgage payment of roughly 3500 I would estimate. I do not know too many people with that type of cash or income. They would absolutely be the rarity and the uppers in my eyes.

[h-tonian]

Originally Posted by LIGuy1202

BTW, does anyone else notice that the price range is $49,999 and then jumps to $99,999 and then jumps to $199,999 and then jumps to $499,999 and then goes to "$1,000,000 or more".

The US Census Bureau does the same with income data.

This leads one to mentally construct a somewhat symetrical bell curve to imply a fair (and expected) distribution.

Why not keep the price range at $49,999 all the way to the top house value? Usually it's so the middle value has the greatest number, in this case, homes not wage earners. And in this particular listing it's the 6th. category with the most; not the 4th or 5th (which would be the low and high middle of an eight-value chart).

Agreed. I was specifically annoyed by the data's range presentation when I posted it as I as hoping to find the exact percentage of homes in the 800k range. There's obviously a big difference between a $500k home and a $999,999 home.

The $1 million + category is also annoying (as is the $200k + income category). That range will include everything from a $1,000,001 1950s split-level in CSH to a $60 million estate in Water Mill. Obviously there's a big range there.

[LIGuy1202]

Originally Posted by Galicia#1

I don't think it's a matter of affording the home. It is more about buying an old house that needs work and still have increasing rediculous taxes every year. RVC is where she grew up. He thinks LI is a terrible place but, like many others has been dragged here kicking and screaming by their wives.

I can relate! I thought I had my retirement taken care of by the time I was 36. I had a duplex and a single family home (neither with a mortgage). I had no worries, financially, and could afford to take 3-6 mos. off each year to travel or pursue educational/self-improvement pursuits.

Then I moved to Long Island in preparation of marrying an LI woman. Boy! Did I get "poor" quickly!

Was I ever 'middle-class'? Probably not; probably more like "working class", though, for the area I lived in, I was comfortable. But if that level of comfort is conditional on where I lived then it probably isn't what I was. [For example, anyone with $250,000 equity in their home could move to any one of the thousands of small communities in this country, or to a developing country, and instantly become "rich". But would they truly be rich? No.]

Was I living a lifestyle enjoyed by 'upper middle-class'? I think so, to some extent, but since I could never afford expensive things I always knew I wasn't (financially).

Coming to LI taught me the complexities of 'income class' and the psychology of perceptions many vigorously, but erroneously, defend.

[LIGuy1202]

Originally Posted by h-tonian

Agreed. I was specifically annoyed by the data's range presentation when I posted it as I as hoping to find the exact percentage of homes in the 800k range. There's obviously a big difference between a $500k home and a $999,999 home.

The $1 million + category is also annoying (as is the $200k + income category). That range will include everything from a $1,000,001 1950s split-level in CSH to a $60 million estate in Water Mill. Obviously there's a big range there.

I'm 'comforted' by our mutual disappointment with how data surveys are presented. So many people argue in defense of such presentations. The most common defense I hear is, "At that [high] level [of income, etc.] the distinctions are irrelevent." I disagree. To me, there is very little distinction at the *lower* levels; it's just that since we're at the lower levels we make micro distinctions that set us apart from those just a tad bit lower....I guess to show we're better off than somebody.

[Pequaman]

NASSAU COUNTY
INCOME AND BENEFITS (IN 2010 INFLATION-ADJUSTED DOLLARS)
Total households 442,833 +/-1,558 442,833 (X)
Less than $10,000 13,943 +/-855 3.1% +/-0.2
$10,000 to $14,999 11,219 +/-641 2.5% +/-0.1
$15,000 to $24,999 25,161 +/-982 5.7% +/-0.2
$25,000 to $34,999 23,828 +/-1,009 5.4% +/-0.2
$35,000 to $49,999 38,396 +/-1,175 8.7% +/-0.3
$50,000 to $74,999 64,066 +/-1,709 14.5% +/-0.4
$75,000 to $99,999 58,364 +/-1,653 13.2% +/-0.4
$100,000 to $149,999 93,450 +/-1,895 21.1% +/-0.4
$150,000 to $199,999 52,828 +/-1,399 11.9% +/-0.3
$200,000 or more 61,578 +/-1,358 13.9% +/-0.3
Median household income (dollars) 93,613
--------
SUFFOLK COUNTY
INCOME AND BENEFITS (IN 2010 INFLATION-ADJUSTED DOLLARS)
Total households 495,289 +/-2,031 495,289 (X)
Less than $10,000 16,461 +/-1,025 3.3% +/-0.2
$10,000 to $14,999 12,244 +/-856 2.5% +/-0.2
$15,000 to $24,999 29,022 +/-1,215 5.9% +/-0.2
$25,000 to $34,999 29,072 +/-1,163 5.9% +/-0.2
$35,000 to $49,999 47,093 +/-1,279 9.5% +/-0.3
$50,000 to $74,999 83,252 +/-1,724 16.8% +/-0.3
$75,000 to $99,999 75,158 +/-1,846 15.2% +/-0.4
$100,000 to $149,999 108,106 +/-2,091 21.8% +/-0.4
$150,000 to $199,999 49,478 +/-1,383 10.0% +/-0.3
$200,000 or more 45,403 +/-1,146 9.2% +/-0.2
Median household income (dollars) 84,506

Originally Posted by h-tonian

NASSAU HOME VALUES * * * *
Owner-occupied units 363,366


Less than $50,000 3,215
0.9%
$50,000 to $99,999 3,268
0.9%
$100,000 to $149,999 3,485
1.0%
$150,000 to $199,999 5,029
1.4%
$200,000 to $299,999 16,097
4.4%
$300,000 to $499,999 162,740
44.8%
$500,000 to $999,999 141,129
38.8%
$1,000,000 or more 28,403
7.8%
Median (dollars) 487,900
(X)


SUFFOLK HOME VALUE * * * *
Owner-occupied units 403,093


Less than $50,000 4,771
1.2%
$50,000 to $99,999 4,618
1.1%
$100,000 to $149,999 5,154
1.3%
$150,000 to $199,999 8,998
2.2%
$200,000 to $299,999 44,740
11.1%
$300,000 to $499,999 205,109
50.9%
$500,000 to $999,999 110,421
27.4%
$1,000,000 or more 19,282
4.8%
Median (dollars) 424,200
(X)

Looking at these numbers 800k looks like high end middle of the road to me.

I'm more in agreement with StephM on the range where upper-middle class starts. It starts somewhere around $150k-$200k, IMO. Most economic models/social class structure models (albeit subjective) designate the upper-middle class as the top 15% earners, the "Rich" (Wealthy, affluent) at top 1%.

It's impossible to determine the % of homes falling in the $750k-$1M range, but it's most likely far fewer than homes in the $500k-$750k range. If you look at most LI towns on MLS, 9 out of 10 times that's what you'll see (much fewer homes above $750k, than below that level). So based on the distributions above and the 15% structure, I would put the upper-middle class as starting at the following figures:

Nassau
$175k MHI
$800k home

Suffolk
$150k MHI
$750k home

Obviously there is a range here but it's impossible to tell the breakdown of $1M+ earners and homeowners. But the number of people falling in that range gets smaller and smaller as it grows. The top 1% on LI probably starts somewhere in the $300k-$350k+ income range, $1.5M-$2M+ home. Now, I know what you're thinking, what about Oprah, Billy Joel and the like...the people living in $50M mansions in the hamptons or wherever. That is the top .1%, the ultra-rich, and constitutes a VERY small % of the close to 3 Million people on LI.

[FrmlyBklyn]

Originally Posted by Galicia#1

I don't think it's a matter of affording the home. It is more about buying an old house that needs work and still have increasing rediculous taxes every year. RVC is where she grew up. He thinks LI is a terrible place but, like many others has been dragged here kicking and screaming by their wives.

Like the Knight said in Indiana Jones during the search for the Holy Grail "He chose poorly".