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LOVE the HENRY's definition! Never heard that before, and now I will definitely be using it.
I think the problem here is that "pretentious" is an attitude, not an income level. It's more the attitude some get when they move up the income ladder. If one grew up/live in a $50,000/yr income area and you now make $65K, one could act pretentious. Or, you could make $150K and not act pretentious. So, it's not income or QOL, it's attitude and that is dependent on the individual.
I live in Mt. Sinai in one of "those" neighborhoods (long story how we ended up here), and for the most part, most people here are busy raising families and living their lives. There are some snooty people in the area, but not the majority. Most people here are pretty down to earth and minding their own business. Some are the "whole put together package", but most are too busy to worry about that kind of stuff. So, I'd put Mt. Sinai back on the list.
What you are describing are the HENRY's - High Earning Not Rich Yet class of folk. If you truly want to be wealthy you must accumulate it like Silas Marnas counting his sacks of gold coins. An income can be gone today or tomorrow, wealth usually does not evaporate unless is was illusory to begin with - ex. I own 10 homes worth $5 million (I failed to mention I have $4.8 million in mortgages on them) Most of the towns already mentioned don't have that kind of wealth per capita - you want that you need to go to places like Manhasset, Great Neck, Sands Point, Locust Valley,Old Brookville, Old Westbury, the Hamptons, maybe Dix Hills.
This is exactly what pollutes the discussion... Towns like Miller Place are perfect examples of an explosion of housing value disproportionate to the "salary" or "earnings" of the residents. 15+ years ago you could have bought into that town (and many, many other examples) for pennies on the dollar from where they are "valued" today. So many folks are sitting in homes in there that are A) relatively low income (maybe even fixed income) with little to no mortgage, B) mortgaged 5 ways to Sunday for a new McMansion, or C) somewhere in between (i.e. HELOC dipped into phantom equity to buy that Benz or toys). No matter how you look at it, they're clearly not "upper" middle class. They're just pretending to be.
This is exactly what pollutes the discussion... Towns like Miller Place are perfect examples of an explosion of housing value disproportionate to the "salary" or "earnings" of the residents. 15+ years ago you could have bought into that town (and many, many other examples) for pennies on the dollar from where they are "valued" today. So many folks are sitting in homes in there that are A) relatively low income (maybe even fixed income) with little to no mortgage, B) mortgaged 5 ways to Sunday for a new McMansion, or C) somewhere in between (i.e. HELOC dipped into phantom equity to buy that Benz or toys). No matter how you look at it, they're clearly not "upper" middle class. They're just pretending to be.
How does one define "upper middle class"?
Looking at Long Island (Nassau/Suffolk) I'd say Per Capita income greater than $40,000. I prefer to use per capita as it evens out the $$$ across different sized households.
The lows on the Island - the usual suspects: Roosevelt, Hempstead, etc. are in the teens. The highs: Sands Point, Matinecock in the upper $90,000's.
Middle ground the upper 20's and 30's per capita - in which most communities are found.
This is exactly what pollutes the discussion... Towns like Miller Place are perfect examples of an explosion of housing value disproportionate to the "salary" or "earnings" of the residents. 15+ years ago you could have bought into that town (and many, many other examples) for pennies on the dollar from where they are "valued" today. So many folks are sitting in homes in there that are A) relatively low income (maybe even fixed income) with little to no mortgage, B) mortgaged 5 ways to Sunday for a new McMansion, or C) somewhere in between (i.e. HELOC dipped into phantom equity to buy that Benz or toys). No matter how you look at it, they're clearly not "upper" middle class. They're just pretending to be.
How does one define "upper middle class"?
As you wish.
I do think as a point of fact it's fair to recognize that both Miller Place and Mount Sinai had a higher HHI than Sea Cliff. Go to the MP Supermarkets, Starbucks etc and check out the locals if you prefer, but you better not tell the Karate Kid he's slumming or he'll have to sweep the leg lol
I do think both are solid choices for Upper Middle and Unpretentious.
Sorry if you were priced off the Island Kid.
Good to see you.
; )
Looking at Long Island (Nassau/Suffolk) I'd say Per Capita income greater than $40,000. I prefer to use per capita as it evens out the $$$ across different sized households.
The lows on the Island - the usual suspects: Roosevelt, Hempstead, etc. are in the teens. The highs: Sands Point, Matinecock in the upper $90,000's.
Middle ground the upper 20's and 30's per capita - in which most communities are found.
Fair enough, but I think you'd need to acknowledge that so many of the towns being discussed here are brought into the thread based on housing prices. Miller Place (continuing with my example) has a per capita of $38,580... yet if you compare median household income ($106k) to median housing ($461k) you see the obvious gap - housing should be 2-3times the income, not 4times+. It's out of whack and the only reason people will call it "upper" is because the house prices and taxes are nuts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookhaven
As you wish.
I do think as a point of fact it's fair to recognize that both Miller Place and Mount Sinai had a higher HHI than Sea Cliff. Go to the MP Supermarkets, Starbucks etc and check out the locals if you prefer, but you better not tell the Karate Kid he's slumming or he'll have to sweep the leg lol
I do think both are solid choices for Upper Middle and Unpretentious.
Sorry if you were priced off the Island Kid.
Good to see you.
; )
Crooks.
I shopped MP extensively (as well as the surrounding towns) before I left... which I know you know. I'm intimately familiar with "the locals" - hit the bars to get the real flavor. =)
My point is that MP is not upper by my definition or the proposed $40k per capita (it's less). So although it may be unpretentious, I don't think it has any justification to be... it's not "upper". Short of CSH I'd have a hard time naming an "upper" Suffolk town - I'd say it's all in Nassau with a jump to above upper when you hit the specific high end Suffolk of the Hamptons/Amagansett. Lots of middle middle to choose from, though.
Fair enough, but I think you'd need to acknowledge that so many of the towns being discussed here are brought into the thread based on housing prices. Miller Place (continuing with my example) has a per capita of $38,580... yet if you compare median household income ($106k) to median housing ($461k) you see the obvious gap - housing should be 2-3times the income, not 4times+. It's out of whack and the only reason people will call it "upper" is because the house prices and taxes are nuts.
I shopped MP extensively (as well as the surrounding towns) before I left... which I know you know. I'm intimately familiar with "the locals" - hit the bars to get the real flavor. =)
My point is that MP is not upper by my definition or the proposed $40k per capita (it's less). So although it may be unpretentious, I don't think it has any justification to be... it's not "upper". Short of CSH I'd have a hard time naming an "upper" Suffolk town - I'd say it's all in Nassau with a jump to above upper when you hit the specific high end Suffolk of the Hamptons/Amagansett. Lots of middle middle to choose from, though.
Good to see you too Crooksie...
How is per capita the only metric and not HHI?
Are you suggesting that 3V,BBpt,Great River,SWR,Manorville,PJ,Belle Terre,Poquott,HoH don't fit the bill either?
Upper MIDDLE CLASS dude.
Do you kiss your mother at the Piggly Wiggly with that mouth lol
; )
Are you suggesting that 3V,BBpt,Great River,SWR,Manorville,PJ,Belle Terre,Poquott,HoH don't fit the bill either?
Upper MIDDLE CLASS dude.
Do you kiss your mother at the Piggly Wiggly with that mouth lol
; )
Crooksie
$40k per capita was introduced above me in the thread, I was just referring to that... I personally would consider HHI and to that point MP being $106k median would not be upper to me. Heck, it would barely be middle middle considering I know families making way over that and living in towns like Centereach and Ronko because they couldn't "afford" $500k for a fixer with $12k taxes.
and no... EI schools, broken SWR (or Riverhead schools), Manorville foreclosure land, and Port Jeff (non-"village") are just up islanders. Pockets of 3V, Bayport, PJ Village proper, Belle Terre, Poquott, Head of the Harbour are basically small developments in the big picture (pop. numbers would clearly support this) - albeit I will concede they would certainly meet most criteria for "upper"... yet they definitely wouldn't fit the unpretentious bill.
Come on now - we have 7-11s now... will have a slurpee on you! =)
We can agree to disagree on the differences between Upper Middle and Wealthy.
We both know who lives in those towns.
Sorry it didn't work out for you back home.
There are parts of Rocky Point that overlook the water and Shoreham in their private beach communities that could fill that criteria as well.
Operative word 'parts' as most of Rocky Point is not upper middle class. Unpretentious except for those who have to assert they are in the Shores as though it were Belle Terre. I found it a nice place to live and in recent years noticed the lower rent areas cleaning up.
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)
Most of the towns already mentioned don't have that kind of wealth per capita - you want that you need to go to places like Manhasset, Great Neck, Sands Point, Locust Valley,Old Brookville, Old Westbury, the Hamptons, maybe Dix Hills.
