Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
That's the thing, no kids today buy that. My generation saw that fairy tail dissapear and maybe some fell for it, but the writing was on the wall. If you were working in corporate America during the 90's with all the outsourcing, you knew what was happening.
Sorry to get political, but the real funny thing is that people still buy the whole "job creator" bs from the right. If you cut some CEO's taxes, he might change his mind about outsourcing jobs to raise his stock options a few points. Funny that middle class people buy this crap.
Don't count on it - right now, it looks like the incumbent will be in for another 4. You heard it here first.
I'm guessing because the Wall Street crash helped fuel the downturn? Because some of the people in the piece had Wall Street jobs they lost? Because MANY LI folks, like me and Mrs. Superfly, depend on their NYC jobs to afford LI. Seems a strange criticism.
I'll watch it. Long Island, historically, is kind of ground zero for the "Suburban Dream" (Levittown, etc). So, as a TV producer, I can see why telling the story here makes sense. It's not just about the economy, but a comment on values, what's important and the demoralizing effect losing your home has on somebody.
I'm curious to see the whole film.
Yes -- I agree with the point in bold.
Wall St/working in NYC was woven through the program. Levittown was brought up as a place which was affordable for returning GIs; one person interviewed was born and raised there and his father still lives in his Levitt house purchased 63 years earlier. In fact the father knew the home's production number. The old man made a point of mentioning how inexpensive the houses were then, how they were added to and their values ballooned, and how their values (while still high) have come down some.
To be honest, if not for a few familiar exteriors, this could have been filmed anywhere. You've made a very good point about LI being ground zero for the Suburban Dream. In retrospect I also believe it is so the film might get noticed elsewhere, too. After all, LI has a reputation of having money and a reputation for us all living comfortably. The program humanized LI to some degree and perhaps cast aside some of the misperceptions.
The part about ageism in hiring is true. It's technically illegal but people just use code words like "energetic" and such..I've seen it first hand. What's funny is these words are often used by baby boomers the same age as those they are screwing. I'm about 10 years short of being able to get the shaft because of age, but it worries me, and is one of the reaons I'd like my house to be paid off sooner than later.
I lost a job at the age of 50 and landed my current job at 51 working for a software consulting company where I've moved up the ladder quickly.
Some hints for the over 45 set:
Exercise: Staying in shape keeps you energetic, a beer gut and jowls not so much.
Stay up to date on the industry that you're looking in.
Don't list every job going back to high school on your resume as it gives away your age before you even get in the door. Also don't list graduation dates for the same reason.
Be positive.
Make sure your interviewing suit makes you look good.
Get a good haircut even it you have more head than hair.
LI is a walk in the park compared to the Rust Belt.
No offense to Crooks cause I understand the sentiment, but the reality is that the arrogance, tax burden, layers of govt hacks and nimbyism is very real and has set LI on a downward spiral of lost industry and youth. Can't cry about "outsourcing" when the outsourcing is going to The Carolinas, Colorado and Florida, not India and China. Real gentrification is happening in the rust belt, particularly upstate NY like Buffalo and Rochester, Ohio and even very slowly, Detroit. Snide assertions aside, these things are cyclical and people will go to where the jobs are and the cost of living is low. That's a fact of human migration. The days of LI reaping the benefits of the Wall Street cash cow are coming to an end. Tech automation is seeing to that. How many well paid traders do they need on the floor these days? Whooping goose egg! How many phone reps when most trading is done over the internet?! Zip! Zilch! Hanging our hat on "great schools" is fine until other places develop "great schools" for $12k per pupil instead of $24k and have better grad. rates and college placements than us. Oh yeah, more colleges, too, and with reciprocal agreements like free Community college w/ direct placement into 4 yr state schools if grade requirements are met. Lower costs to do business, less govt obstructionism to development, lower costs of housing and living will siphon talent and youth. Wages will eventually come around there and we won't have that caveat anymore. Anyone notice, Fortunoff is belly up but there are Nordstroms and Macy's opening in smaller cities all over the country. It's not a hinterland out there, it's where the money is GOING!
As Ricky Bobby said "if ya aint first, yer last." Living on old laurels and hoping to grow on businesses like aviation, defense, nutraceutical, mortgage banking, financial services etc is a recipe for rapid decline. We should be (and are strategically poised to be) a silicon alley, biotech, nanotech, software and renewable energy incubator but we can't attract the talent and have elected hacks who can barely spell any of those things let alone advocate for Washington dollars for them. Arrogance, prohibitive costs and snotnose politicos keep us from enticing those emerging technologies from taking root here. Heck, we can't even keep a former dynasty major league hockey team cause the layers of hack govt can't agree on the color of shyte. The neighbors are offering water, land, infrastructure and yet these clowns will squabble over building an off ramp and an extra road lane. What developer is going to sink dollar one into that political quagmire?! Would YOU!? What developer is going to sink their dough into building a stand alone 1970's style War Memorial areana w/ no retail or other income streams, surrounded by weed choked vacant lots which is what Town of Hempstead will allow, while other cities offer huge incentives to build state of the art complexes that attract all star games, modern retail and tourism?
Still lost in the 50's and watching the modern world pass us by. Which is exactly what it's doing. Yet the Kate Murrays and Pete Kings continue to win in landslides. Good luck to us all.
Last edited by mongoose65; 07-10-2012 at 10:46 AM..
No offense to Crooks cause I understand the sentiment, but the reality is that the arrogance, tax burden, layers of govt hacks and nimbyism is very real and has set LI on a downward spiral of lost industry and youth. Can't cry about "outsourcing" when the outsourcing is going to The Carolinas, Colorado and Florida, not India and China. Real gentrification is happening in the rust belt, particularly upstate NY like Buffalo and Rochester, Ohio and even very slowly, Detroit. Snide assertations aside, these things are cyclical and people will go to where the jobs are and the cost of living is low. That's a fact of human migration. The days of LI reaping the benefits of the Wall Street cash cow are coming to an end. Tech automation is seeing to that. How many well paid traders do they need on the floor theses days? Whooping goose egg! How many phone reps when most trading is done over the internet?! Zip! Zilch! Hanging our hat on "great schools" is fine until other places develop "great schools" for $12k per pupil instead of $24k and have better grad. rates and college placements than us. Oh yeah, more colleges, too, and with reciprocal agreements like free Ccommunity college w/ direct placement into 4 yr state schools if grade requirements are met. Lower costs to do business, less govt obstructionism to development, lower costs of housing and living will siphon talent and youth.
One of the facts mentioned on the program was concerning the number of young people leaving LI. I believe the figure was 15%.
No offense to Crooks cause I understand the sentiment, but the reality is that the arrogance, tax burden, layers of govt hacks and nimbyism is very real and has set LI on a downward spiral of lost industry and youth.
That's all well and good but the entire world economy is taking a dump, twisting a few knobs in TOH government isn't going to fix it.
That's all well and good but the entire world economy is taking a dump, twisting a few knobs in TOH government isn't going to fix it.
I agree somewhat with your reply as well as with most of what Mongoose wrote. But saying the "entire" economy is taking a dump... sounds like a cop out. I watched the documentary and felt it didn't tell the whole story. The sampling of 4 people out of a couple of million can't possibly make a totally accurate depiction. I don't know if they were trying to blame unemployment benefits, welfare or the Government is lying about the recovery, etc. The stats were generally nation wide and only a couple that they stated were unique to the Island. Yes a lot of the younger folks are moving off the Island and at higher rate then ever, in both the short term and long term this can't be good thing. Even the once untouchable Wall Street is in-sourcing people to other place in the country to reduce costs. You will definitely be feeling the effects of that and all of the business that have left NYC, LI area in the near future.
Getting back to the TOH and turning a few knobs. There answer to every problem (forever.. until just recently) seemed just to throw money at the problem. Instead of thinking of the future (ie growth, development,infrastructure, control spending, housing, entice business to move in) they just kept things status quo and raised taxes. That's all the they seem to know. Now the the chickens are starting to come home to roost, there is a lot of finger pointing going on ( we all know what I'm talking about)
Believe it of not they're place across this country that are bucking this trend. They're places that have way lower than the national average of 8.1 % unemployment rate, are hiring, controlled and lower cost of living, business and economic growth,balanced budgets and triple A bond rated. I'm not going to make this personal and keep it general. No need for facts or figures but the County government(TOH) has to be at least partially to blame, no? I personally blame them more than partially but again that's my opinion on the subject.
Last edited by BigMike50; 07-10-2012 at 03:08 PM..
Wow, that was difficult to watch. I feel terrible for my LI brethren. My mom lost her job of 30 years about a month ago; she is in her late 70's and needed to retire anyway but wouldn't. She will stay on LI for a while and then probably stay between my siblings homes in FL, TX, NV and IL.
When Mel said "my American dream is to sit on the couch with my dogs on my lap" I was literally on my couch with my 2 dogs because of a storm here. Things are peachy where I live but there is tremendous competition for jobs due to everyone flocking here so it seems just as hard to land a decent position. I was offered a 10k raise today and I wanted more but am now satisfied (for now). I do realize that I need to innovate, have vision and stay on top of my field. I didn't finish college but I have skills and a great personality that got me to the point I am today but I could see myself laid off if I don't keep looking ahead. I have been outsourced in my current town and had to train my Indian replacements in my previous position. It's not a good feeling, I called it "digging my grave." I was promoted for my efforts but got out of there as quickly as I could.
I'm not sure what my point is but I left LI when I was 26 during the 90's recession. I made some fortunate moves, to Detroit when the auto industry was booming, Manhattan in the late 90's to '05 and now Austin. I think you need to go where the work is but I never moved for financial reasons, I just got lucky. I do think people need to be more mobile and not tied to one place. There, that's my point. Thanks for reading, I feel the need to get something out after watching that. Damn.
what's the alternative? Work on a farm or work in construction where it's most hard hit? With no formal education to fall back on? Nobody is saying "you'll be all set".
It's time for people to be self sufficient and stop relying on corporations and the government for their survival. People complain about CEO's and big corporations, yet they still support them and never start their own businesses and create their own jobs.
As for formal education, it's obvious that it has failed us. How can we call ourselves educated and we have to beg someone for a menial job? I mean, we're so smart yet we don't even know how to make a few dollars on our own. I go to Queens and Brooklyn and see tons of people, mostly foreign, running their own small businesses, and I'm sure a lot of them don't have formal educations, and I'm also sure that they net more than the average LIer makes working a job. If they can do that, so can we.
Of course, nobody is going to want to do the above. It would require that we be responsible and we wouldnt be able to blame Wall Street, politicians and others for our poor financial condition.
It's time for people to be self sufficient and stop relying on corporations and the government for their survival. People complain about CEO's and big corporations, yet they still support them and never start their own businesses and create their own jobs.
As for formal education, it's obvious that it has failed us. How can we call ourselves educated and we have to beg someone for a menial job? I mean, we're so smart yet we don't even know how to make a few dollars on our own. I go to Queens and Brooklyn and see tons of people, mostly foreign, running their own small businesses, and I'm sure a lot of them don't have formal educations, and I'm also sure that they net more than the average LIer makes working a job. If they can do that, so can we.
Of course, nobody is going to want to do the above. It would require that we be responsible and we wouldnt be able to blame Wall Street, politicians and others for our poor financial condition.
- start our own businesses when we pass by store after store closed due to recession?
- you're "sure" they net more in their own job standing behind a counter all day? Did you happen to ask how many hours a week they work? Well I'm pretty "sure" "they" need to, some more than others. Do you see them driving nice cars or living in nice houses? And before you mention anything about people "showing off their wealth"... don't forget who gets to enjoy the wealth first. Or more appropriately, who doesn't. Maybe these shop owners are the sole income while the other half watches the kids at home? They come home at 930pm and get to do it again at 7am? Getting even more taxed by the evil gov't? Is this the american dream for many of these foreigners you speak of?
- I think I'm pretty fortunate in coming from a responsible, good family and don't blame the gov't for anything. I don't care about politics nor Wall Street. Sounds like the kind of generalization you wish others were making so you'd feel better about not doing the same. I'm living my life for my family and hobbies. A job is just a means to continue the lifestyle. I actually love the work I do and do it sitting at home everyday. The trade-off is they don't pay top dollar but that's what you get for "work/life balance" - I do whatever I want and whenever - for a big corporation. If while in college you asked me to choose between owning my own place working crazy hours with a chance of falling on my face or doing this / any normal-hours job with paid time off, guess which I would choose? But here you are suggesting we skip college and go for broke. I thought you said to be responsible?
Don't get me wrong - I think it's great that small businesses (and I don't mean the corner deli in Queens) can succeed. Behind those are usually educated individuals or partners who knew how to make the right decisions and are willing to put in the effort. I didn't see what your solution would be for the kid who didn't even go to school to start something like that for himself. Maybe you could tell us what you did and we'll be able to judge if just anyone can do the same.
Last edited by ovi8; 07-11-2012 at 06:27 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Funny that middle class people buy this crap.
