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Don't ask me how but I got a copy of the full contract and after reading it through its entirely, I now realize this is a huge win for the County. All people want to see is 200k with xxx number over O.T. for the senior officers but don't realize that eventually these senior officers have to retire and then you will see the real benefits (long term ) of this contract. It took several years(even decades) to get into this mess and it's going to take almost as long to corrected it. The job of the union prez is to sell this contract as a "win" to his membership or he will be defeated in reelection. The slide slip was not done unintentionally like the members and the public itself just see the" big numbers" not the "big picture".
I could go in such great detail but why bother.........like I said before ask your congressman to explain it to you!.
But it is Bellone's fault he has agreed to guaranteed increases in pay over a ten year period. Given the already high base and an electorate predisposed to containing public salaries it doesn't make sense.
Wow, $111k over 12 years plus nighttime differential, longevity pay and assorted other hidden means of boosting your pay - this is a big win for the county? It's a joke.
[quote=kmrlongisland;25616172]But it is Bellone's fault he has agreed to guaranteed increases in pay over a ten year period. Given the already high base and an electorate predisposed to containing public salaries it doesn't make sense.
Wow, $111k over 12 years plus nighttime differential, longevity pay and assorted other hidden means of boosting your pay - this is a big win for the county? It's a joke.[/quote]
I guess comparing it to current SCPD rates, yet it is. Remember, all these guys would be pulling that much money in the public sector as well..at least, that's what they think a CJ degree from SCC is worth.
It is. Check out Newsday, it's now the top story. What is interesting though is that 149k base is only for current officers, new hires after 2012 will only get 111k base after 12 years:
New hires will not be eligible for the proposed $149,238 base pay, said Deputy County Executive Jon Schneider. For officers hired in 2013 and later, their top base pay would be $111,506, he said.
In any case this contract hasn't yet been approved by the legislature or the PBA. Wonder if Newsday pushes this story hard enough it will cause enough outrage to derail the contract. Could get interesting.
I did not see the $111,506 base pay cap for new hires mentioned previously, yes that is big plus. The issue is that they will probably not be hiring much in the next 10 years maybe not until a new contract is negotiated in 2020. Assuming the 2020 contract goes to arbitration will the arbitrator look at the contract for new hires after 2013 or the contract for existing hires before 2013 ? If the 2020 contract is negotiated from the 111,506 base that's great, if not then not so great.
If they can keep the base cap at or near $111,506 next timearound then that is a big plus, they are going to have huge pension and salary costs in the next 8 years but it might be worth it.
I do agree with you on this point Mike, 111k for new hires after 12 years is a big win for the county. It takes the ballooning pay down several pegs, but as you said it will take years for the benefits to be felt, as it will with Tier 6 retirement etc. In addition new hires have to pay 15% healthcare. It really blows up the status quo in the future. I also agree that some of the past suggestions from some posters (cutting pay 25% etc.) are just not realistic at all.
The bottom line though is in this economy giving away 150k base (lets forget about the night diff, overtime etc.) in this midst of massive county Debt and layoffs looks really bad to Joe Public. No way around that. Plus everyone knows Bellone got a big push from the PBA, so now it looks like a payoff (whether it is or not). Now its slapped on the cover of newsday for all to see to make matters worse.
Two choices:
(1) It IS.
(2) Never mind, look over there, it's Wall Street's fault!
Check out Newsday. Bellone is backing off of the contact due to pressure. The agreement was cut from ten to eight years and the salary increases were cut to 129k base in 2018 estimated Top compensation with night diff, ot etc in the mid 160s.
Check out Newsday. Bellone is backing off of the contact due to pressure. The agreement was cut from ten to eight years and the salary increases were cut to 129k base in 2018 estimated Top compensation with night diff, ot etc in the mid 160s.
A little bit more palatable but I would prefer more concessions like removing the no layoffs clause, and requiring existing officers to pay towards healthcare (at least 10% of the cost).
Don't ask me how but I got a copy of the full contract and after reading it through its entirely, I now realize this is a huge win for the County. All people want to see is 200k with xxx number over O.T. for the senior officers but don't realize that eventually these senior officers have to retire and then you will see the real benefits (long term ) of this contract. It took several years(even decades) to get into this mess and it's going to take almost as long to corrected it. The job of the union prez is to sell this contract as a "win" to his membership or he will be defeated in reelection. The slide slip was not done unintentionally like the members and the public itself just see the" big numbers" not the "big picture".
I could go in such great detail but why bother.........like I said before ask your congressman to explain it to you!.
I wouldn't call it a huge win - and I don't think there has been a "huge win" for Long Island in any public labor negotiations going back 40+ years...
...however, I'm gonna have to go against the general consensus here and say that from my perspective, this seems like a considerably less vicious {mod] inappropriate language [/mod] than we are accustomed to. I'll even go as far as to say that, "win" hyperbole aside, I'm in complete agreement with what BigMike50 stated above.
Why? Forget the sticker shock and PBA swinging, this saves the county money long term and that's the only thing that matters. We've been having this discussion on these forums for years and I've long been convinced that the present is a lost cause entirely. Short of Albany drastically re-imagining the whole concept behind public unions and collective bargaining - all we're going to get in the near term are some bullsht one-shot givebacks that will never equate to any real savings. This is what every politician who comes along promising to reign in spending pursues and the net result is always meaningless, temporary budget balancing (at best) that requires moving hell and earth to achieve and all the while allows the PBA and their ilk to rack up considerable public goodwill brownie points and a stronger position at the negotiating table.
And yet, no one ever wants to attempt systematic changes because - well, who wants to do hard work that won't pay off until long after you've been voted out of office? That's the real surprise here (and makes me wonder if there isn't something completely awful lurking in the details). This contract would appear to make no one happy on the surface. The PBA will hate it because it's not every last thing their precious, heroic hearts desired, the public will hate it because it doesn't even pretend to make any difference on their next tax bill... and I don't know what Bellone's angle is here, maybe he's just overestimating the average human being's attention span. I've also gotta believe that had the PBA pushed for arbitration, they may have had to "work without a new contract" (gasp! THE HORROR!) for awhile longer... but I'm sure they would've ended up with a better deal when it was all said and done.
Yes, I think it's just as disgusting that 200k-blah-blah-lbah-disability-pension-everybody-goin'-broke-and-these-SCCC-associates-degree-havin'-heroic-soldiers-of-fortune are leeching the island dry as everyone else (who isn't a cop, related to a cop, financially supported by a cop or inflicted with some strange authority fetishism) does - but let's get real. We continue to eat crap for the next half a decade, and then there's some light at the end of the tunnel. Things like massive pay cuts, layoffs, pension forfeitures, etc. aren't going to happen. That's totally unrealistic. This contract that's on the table is, sadly enough, probably as good as it's gonna get at the moment - but IMO, it is a gigantic leap in the right direction compared to business-as-usual on LI. I'm not sure how much more can really be done at the county level alone.
^ wow awesome post Sean. You should write editorials for Newsday lol!
Short of a massive economic calamity forcing the repeal of the Taylor Law (binding arbitration) and amending the NYS constitution ending pension guarantees there is only so much that can be done at the county level. Like you said at least for the future this is finally a big step in the right direction bringing police salaries back down to earth (for future hires that is). If you look at the changes in the last few years (not just in Suffolk but state wide with Tier 6) the seemingly endless gravy train is slowly being whittled away for the future. Is there more that has to be done? Yep, there is a long long way to go, but a lot of these concessions and changes to the pension system would have been unthinkable 10-20-30 years ago.
All this being said I have to really wonder if the PBA members will even approve this since Bellone has now taken back 4 years of guaranteed raises. They may want to Take their chances with arbitration after all.
I wouldn't call it a huge win - and I don't think there has been a "huge win" for Long Island in any public labor negotiations going back 40+ years...
Why? Forget the sticker shock and PBA swinging, this saves the county money long term and that's the only thing that matters. We've been having this discussion on these forums for years and I've long been convinced that the present is a lost cause entirely. Short of Albany drastically re-imagining the whole concept behind public unions and collective bargaining - all we're going to get in the near term are some bullsht one-shot givebacks that will never equate to any real savings. This is what every politician who comes along promising to reign in spending pursues and the net result is always meaningless, temporary budget balancing (at best) that requires moving hell and earth to achieve and all the while allows the PBA and their ilk to rack up considerable public goodwill brownie points and a stronger position at the negotiating table.
And yet, no one ever wants to attempt systematic changes because - well, who wants to do hard work that won't pay off until long after you've been voted out of office? That's the real surprise here (and makes me wonder if there isn't something completely awful lurking in the details). This contract would appear to make no one happy on the surface. The PBA will hate it because it's not every last thing their precious, heroic hearts desired, the
Well said it's proabab public will hate it because it doesn't even pretend to make any difference on their next tax bill... and I don't know what Bellone's angle is here, maybe he's just overestimating the average human being's attention span. I've also gotta believe that had the PBA pushed for arbitration, they may have had to "work without a new contract" (gasp! THE HORROR!) for awhile longer... but I'm sure they would've ended up with a better deal when it was all said and done.
Yes, I think it's just as disgusting that 200k-blah-blah-lbah-disability-pension-everybody-goin'-broke-and-these-SCCC-associates-degree-havin'-heroic-soldiers-of-fortune are leeching the island dry as everyone else (who isn't a cop, related to a cop, financially supported by a cop or inflicted with some strange authority fetishism) does - but let's get real. We continue to eat crap for the next half a decade, and then there's some light at the end of the tunnel. Things like massive pay cuts, layoffs, pension forfeitures, etc. aren't going to happen. That's totally unrealistic. This contract that's on the table is, sadly enough, probably as good as it's gonna get at the moment - but IMO, it is a gigantic leap in the right direction compared to business-as-usual on LI. I'm not sure how much more can really be done at the county level alone.
Well said, it's probably worth the suffering if it moves the salaries in the other direction. It will be longer than 10 years though, those $200K salaries will turn into $180K pensions maybe more in some cases. The SCPD consumes 21% of the budget that will increase greatly in the next 10 years, new hires will be a non issue for now. Still can't get over $7500 longevity pay to make sure cops stay, sounds like a sick joke.
First time any negotiation had meaningful reform, and this will definitely impact the NCPD contract coming in 2015.
A little bit more palatable but I would prefer more concessions like removing the no layoffs clause, and requiring existing officers to pay towards healthcare (at least 10% of the cost).
They will still get increases the last 2 years, no one knows the amount. Yes they should remove the no-layoff clause obviously NCPD was overstaffed and survived after layoffs, that should never be in a contract. Funding for SCPD will escalate the next 10 years, if the sales tax receipts stay down they have no option?
Nassau and Suffolk are not the only ones dealing with fiscal problems, many poorer upstate citiies arein serious trouble.
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