Historic Homes $$$?? (Huntington, Levittown, Hicksville: broker, houses, living in)

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by clamboy

Can I get my 1974 inline ranch in Rocky Point on the the Brookahven Historic registry?

My friend pays 2500 a year in taxes for a Victorian on 2 Acres in Setauket.
I pay 3 times that...her Neighbor pays 20.

I for one wax nostalgic for the 70s : )
If it were a car it would be a classic...Its all relative.

C

PS

Levitt capes should be historic too

Your inline would qualify for antique insurance, at a substantial discount, if it were a car!

Your friend has been in that 11733 victorian for a very long time I am guessing. Don't let any cats out of the bag on that one! SHHHHHH!

There ought to be (if there isn't already -- I haven't lived there in a long time) some historic district in RP. The cottages, with their quirky history, deserve preservation.

It's a shame that politics played into the West Meadow beach cottages; they reminded me (on a much smaller scale) of going to Breezy Point when I was a little girl. RP up by the beach bears some resemblance to it, too.

[clamboy]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Your inline would qualify for antique insurance, at a substantial discount, if it were a car!

Your friend has been in that 11733 victorian for a very long time I am guessing. Don't let any cats out of the bag on that one! SHHHHHH!

There ought to be (if there isn't already -- I haven't lived there in a long time) some historic district in RP. The cottages, with their quirky history, deserve preservation.

It's a shame that politics played into the West Meadow beach cottages; they reminded me (on a much smaller scale) of going to Breezy Point when I was a little girl. RP up by the beach bears some resemblance to it, too.

I agree...they are fading fast unfortunately.

Theres still a few old log cabins and Swiss cottages left in Rocky Point...they really should be preserved.

Our Historic District is West of Hallock Landing(Hallock lane and the Paths)

I was sad to see the West Meadow cottages go...but I understand why.
C

[andybuildz]

Obviously what makes something historic is its age. What the age has to be I don't really know....I do know however that my house probably is (c:1680)...historic..lol.
I do have to say that it's not in the registry of historic homes how ever.
I also don't expect the town to pay for me to do the work but you would think some kind of substantial tax break on the house might be in order.

I was looking into some programs in other Noth Eastern states where you can live in the house for the rest of your life and I believe you can even pass the house down to your children but the catch is...you never own the house and you have to pay approx a minimum of $250,000 towrds the restoration and do the work to restore the house within 5 years. The houses are total disasters....beyond most people's comprehension as to how to reconstruct them...not to mention whre and how to live while you do it.
Something thats intriguing to me

So it seems to me that a lot of states "find ways" to get these old houses back in shape again....and they should because they're part of our history.
And to take that one step further...as a carp for over 30 years in my own business I know what these people had to go through hundredsa of years ago to build these things. Nothing even close to what's done today.
When I do repairs and have to do some demo on these things I can see how intricate some of these hand made joints are. etc etc etc....the time these carps spent crafting it all together

The public/local govt's spends hundreds of thousands on "art" and "museums", etc...what makes these old houses any different?
It amazes me to no end watching these ugly McMansions being aproved to build by our local towns but when it comes to putting these old houses back together there's far from any help...quite the opposite.

In "some ways" I feel bad that I allowed my renovations business fall apart to do this house especially with t he RE market being so horrible now ( I wanna sell) but on the other hand it isn't that often one gets to work on something like this and as a die hard carp I do feel some what blessed to have gotten the chance.
Now all I have to do is pray I can sustain the payments till its sold...gulp.

[TomMoser]

Is it on the market? I'd like to take a look.

[andybuildz]

Originally Posted by TomMoser

Is it on the market? I'd like to take a look.

It is Tom but I'm sure they won't like if I post it here...they already removed my web site from one of my posts when I was explaining what it looks like but if you look in the Cold Spring Harbor listings..its the old red farmhouse Moderator cut: advertisingThe Virtual Tour we had done in the listing really shows most of the pictures of my work.
My Home Improvements web site in my City-Data forum profile is the house (Goose Hill Rd Project)
Also...alot of the pictures is the additons I added on (which was instrumental in bracing the original house and getting the basement to become 100% dry)

[OhBeeHave]

Obviously what makes something historic is its age. What the age has to be I don't really know....I do know however that my house probably is (c:1680)...historic..lol.
I do have to say that it's not in the registry of historic homes how ever.
I also don't expect the town to pay for me to do the work but you would think some kind of substantial tax break on the house might be in order.

Historic can be interpreted through age (your home's particular vintage) or within the context of historical events occurring at or surrounding the particular home/homes.

A substantial tax break, why? (Realize I am playing devil's advocate; I am all about preservation) A taxpayer in a Bic McMansion is going to ask why should my taxes (at whatever level of government) subsidize a person who wishes to remain in an old house in possible dire need of repair? And if my money is subsidizing that home, shouldn't I have a say as to what they should (maintain the beehive oven) or shouldn't (place Italian imported tile with high end ultra modern bath fixtures in a 200 sf bath)

I was looking into some programs in other Noth Eastern states where you can live in the house for the rest of your life and I believe you can even pass the house down to your children but the catch is...you never own the house and you have to pay approx a minimum of $250,000 towrds the restoration and do the work to restore the house within 5 years. The houses are total disasters....beyond most people's comprehension as to how to reconstruct them...not to mention whre and how to live while you do it.
Something thats intriguing to me

It sounds very intriguing, something I would look into. Then I think about the West Meadow Beach cottages. The people owned the cottages, but not the land. There were many political connections. As time passed, some people cried foul -- next thing you know the cottage owners either had to move them or see them demolished. To add insult to injury, the cottage owners were subject to additional yearly fee set aside for eventual cottage removal.

So it seems to me that a lot of states "find ways" to get these old houses back in shape again....and they should because they're part of our history.
And to take that one step further...as a carp for over 30 years in my own business I know what these people had to go through hundredsa of years ago to build these things. Nothing even close to what's done today.
When I do repairs and have to do some demo on these things I can see how intricate some of these hand made joints are. etc etc etc....the time these carps spent crafting it all together

The things you mention are incredible, and it's amazing to think about what these early craftsmen had to do in order to build a structure. Another thing which I found to be awesome is when the older homes and barns are dismantled, stored and then sold -- like a giant Lego set.

The public/local govt's spends hundreds of thousands on "art" and "museums", etc...what makes these old houses any different?

Art and museums benefit the public at large; a privately owned old home benefits the owner first, and if kept up (and in an area where it is appreciated) the immediate public.

It amazes me to no end watching these ugly McMansions being aproved to build by our local towns but when it comes to putting these old houses back together there's far from any help...quite the opposite.

Once again, it's the 'greater good' thing which is often times rather misguided. I shudder to think of the folks in New London, CT whose houses were seized by eminent domain allegedly to stave off urban blight and increase tax revenue to the municipality. The officials see tax dollars as opposed to the real picture: preserving the intergrity of our towns through the preservation of historic and vernacular architecture.

In "some ways" I feel bad that I allowed my renovations business fall apart to do this house especially with t he RE market being so horrible now ( I wanna sell) but on the other hand it isn't that often one gets to work on something like this and as a die hard carp I do feel some what blessed to have gotten the chance.
Now all I have to do is pray I can sustain the payments till its sold...gulp.

Best of luck. It looks as though you've done a lovely job with the house. Hopefully a good, preservation-minded individual will come along, fall in love with it and treasure it for a very long time.

[andybuildz]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

.

A substantial tax break, why? (Realize I am playing devil's advocate; I am all about preservation) A taxpayer in a Bic McMansion is going to ask why should my taxes (at whatever level of government) subsidize a person who wishes to remain in an old house in possible dire need of repair?

The reason being is because there are a lot of restictions and compliances i have to meet far "beyond" what the "normal" house has. I'm also not allowed to take the house down or any part of it. Anything I do to the outside even besides structual things I have to jump through hoops to do...beyond what the normal home owner has to comply with. So why shouldn't the scale tip a little bit in the way of homeowner too?

I can 100% guarantee you if I were allowed to remove this house from the face of the earth before I did what I did to it.....and built a new house further back on the peoperty,,,away from the road this house would be worth a whole lot more and had cost me a "whole lot less" to build.
Starting from scratch is "cake" compared to a restoration of this magnitude.

That is why i think there shoukd be at lest some sort of break to do these things.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by andybuildz

The reason being is because there are a lot of restictions and compliances i have to meet far "beyond" what the "normal" house has. I'm also not allowed to take the house down or any part of it. Anything I do to the outside even besides structual things I have to jump through hoops to do...beyond what the normal home owner has to comply with. So why shouldn't the scale tip a little bit in the way of homeowner too?

I can 100% guarantee you if I were allowed to remove this house from the face of the earth before I did what I did to it.....and built a new house further back on the peoperty,,,away from the road this house would be worth a whole lot more and had cost me a "whole lot less" to build.
Starting from scratch is "cake" compared to a restoration of this magnitude.

That is why i think there shoukd be at lest some sort of break to do these things.

Most of us who own older homes in my neck of the woods are paying far less in property taxes to begin with. Newer stock home owners routinely complain about that fact. I can't speak for CSH, but in SB that's the case. They are looking for us to ante up as they whine that it's 'not fair.' Can you sell these people on why they should subsidize a person who decides to purchase an old home? They just don't understand. They see $$$ vs $ on the tax bills. They don't see the crumbling foundations, sagging walls, termite eaten floor joists that we come across. They see their uninspired, shiny new Bic McMansions with exhorbitant taxes.

I know the hoops you write of, the rules, the what can/can't be done and how things have to be done to code all the while looking like they've never been touched in this or the last century. The hidden 'surprises' that crop up when you open the walls, floors or ceilings. Yes, new soup to nuts with all the bells and whistles can be less expensive than a restoration and built much faster, too. The house set closer to the road as opposed to new construction is another one of those old house quirks; the silver lining is more backyard, but again, how many 'regular house' people understand?

Buying an older home is a personal decision, a love affair that only a few of us understand. Most people go into purchasing an old home fully aware of the nightmare they can entail. Their decision is to take on this endeavor.

The key word is that it is a decision. If Bob makes a bad investment on Wall Street, can Bob expect his broker's other clients to subsidize his bum stock?

I own a small fleet of historically correct, unmodified antique vehicles. Should I expect a portion of the sales tax collected on gasoline to be set (aside for me and like-minded car collectors) to offset the expenses affiliated with owning antique cars? Of course not. I decided to buy them, knowing full well what expenses they would incur and the difficulty involved in finding obsolete parts.

Around the corner from me, the neighbor pays $14K per year for more house, 20 years young, on less land. My taxes are almost $7K less -- I'll consider that my subsidy!

[sean sean sean sean]

OhBeeHave - I think you're dead on with everything you've posted in this thread. Old homes have lower property taxes all over the island, and generally much larger plots of land. I can't really say if the towns promote the practice one way or another, but chopping these parcels up and building McMansions is a certainly a property tax godsend for them. I would assume the number one problem facing older homes is the fact that the value of the larger land parcels on the open market FAR exceeds the fair market values the property is assessed for. I don't know if it's the same for Suffolk, but Nassau County lets you check this information online...it's not unusual to find an older property listed on MLSLI at 300-500k OVER it's assessment....leading to a situation where your average home buyer is completely priced out and only developers have any business with the land.

Villages have the luxury of restructuring their building/zoning codes to suit the characteristics of the neighborhood, but this is not a realistic solution for unincorporated sections as the towns that govern them cover far too diverse an area. As you mentioned, the owned property/leased land situation has the potential to get dangerous. West Meadow Beach has happened before (see High Hill Beach) and has the potential to happen again. All of those multi-million dollar Oak Beach homes are on leased land and could be torn down at any time....potentially a dicey situation.

I think the real problem is that too many people just don't appreciate the historic aspects of where they live and the older architecture. To people like us it's beautiful and a link to an earlier time, a point of taking pride in your neighborhood. I didn't really understand this until I lived in Albany and traveled through areas like Hudson where preservation was a very big deal. Unfortunately, a lot of residents of this island are more interested in something that looks as expensive as possible no matter how gaudy that means it being. The best solution I can come up with is getting involved with your preservation society, turning your neighbors on to where they live and working with the sellers, the local government and the developers to reach some sort of compromise. The preservation society here in Wantagh has done a great job making the community aware of it's history and campaigning to save older properties. Take a look at this 1860s Victorian that was integrated into the design of some condominiums, I'd love to see more smart development like this all over the island.

ToH - BZ - Landmarks - Seaman Venier House

andy - Your house and craftsmanship is truly amazing, hopefully seeing this work inspires others. 1690 is BEYOND ancient for an LI home!

[sean sean sean sean]

I would also love to see the original Levitt capes designated as landmarks like you guys suggested...but unfortunately, an original Levitt cape no longer exists! At the 50th anniversary (ten years ago) they couldn't even find one in Levittown, though there was one in Hicksville that was about to be expanded. I'm sure it's long gone now!