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Uh huh. Like you didn't understand what I was getting at. That's fine - no need to derail the thread further.
Have a lovely commute this evening
You misunderstood me.
I was thinking about the people that come on the LI CD board and brag:
"I'm making the same amount I did on LI but I live in Bump in the Road, [Red State], where the cost of living is 1/3 that of LI! I swear that's true on my mother, and guess what, that's what it's like nowadays in most Red States, you poor sucker on LI!"
I know YOU don't write posts like that but there are people that do.
It's not possible to say that it had an impact. We have ~8000 guys here and supposedly many of them are just sitting around waiting for orders from management, or having to drive all over the place to get parts because there is no organization. You can speculate, but that's about it.That's fine, but the story should begin and end with that sentiment, and not carry into the typical "RAWR DISBAND ALL UNIONS!" crap. The only people who stand to benefit from weakening unions are business owners (setting aside the problems we have here on LI with teachers and the PBA, which are a totally different issue).
Aha! So you admit it.
I don't think this particular union is "so different" than teachers and the PBA because they work for a company that provides an extremely vital service to the community, electricity, and, true to form, instead of working to help the community they "serve," they are looking out for No. 1 to the detriment of the community they "serve."
I believe public sector unions should be illegal and unionizing in companies that provide vital, essential services to Americans should be illegal, although I am realistic enough to determine that it will probably not happen in my lifetime.
IBEW is the union for all electricians, not just those working in the public sector. I suppose what you would want is to remove government-employed electricans from IBEW, not abolish IBEW.
Why aren't public sector employees entitled to organize and assert their rights as workers just because their paycheck comes from the government? Public workers have wages and benefits higher than some in the private sector because they have a union protecting their interests, while most private workers are not unionized and therefore getting hosed by their employers (e.g. Walmart employees).
IBEW is the union for all electricians, not just those working in the public sector. I suppose what you would want is to remove government-employed electricans from IBEW, not abolish IBEW.
Why aren't public sector employees entitled to organize and assert their rights as workers just because their paycheck comes from the government? Public workers have wages and benefits higher than some in the private sector because they have a union protecting their interests, while most private workers are not unionized and therefore getting hosed by their employers (e.g. Walmart employees).
Because there is too much of an unfair balance of power.
With private sector unions, they negotiate with the ones paying the bills, the employers. If the employer doesn't make a profit, he cannot meet their demands. The negotiations are based on reality.
With public sector unions, they "negotiate" with both sides against the ones paying the bills, the taxpayers. Perhaps public sector unions should not be allowed to make political contributions, because the way things stand, they line the pockets of the politicians (who are "supposed" to be representing the interests of the taxpayers) and the politicians do their bidding. If the government employer doesn't make a profit it doesn't matter. The politicians give the store away to the unions and raise the taxes on the taxpayers ... every single time! It's a crooked, unfair system and has ended up with certain classes of labor being severely overcompensated, costing the taxpayers way too much money, when if the free market was left in place, things would be different.
That is why all states should be Right to Work, at least in the public sector. Or public sector unions should be prohibited from meddling in what costs the taxpayers considerable money, like compensation and benefits, and should only be allowed to protect the other interests of their members (such as due process when losing a job instead of "at will employment").
When public services are compromised because of excessive, artificially inflated, personnel costs due to public sector unions, it is EVERYBODY'S problem. Just look around you. Look at the schools cutting programs, but the teachers' raises, benefits and pensions UNAFFECTED. Look at less police on the streets to protect the public, but they cost the public a FORTUNE. Look at the LIRR with ticket punchers on bloated disability pensions, yet out playing golf ... but the LIRR is woefully rickety and cannot serve its customers in an emergency. Finally, look at LIPA, whose costs to the consumer are among the highest in the nation, their union members are totally spoiled ... and their infrastructure is a crumbling joke, leaving hundreds of thousands in the dark, in the 21st Century.
Something's gotta give. Why does it always have to be more out of the taxpayers' pockets?
IBEW is the union for all electricians, not just those working in the public sector. I suppose what you would want is to remove government-employed electricans from IBEW, not abolish IBEW.
Why aren't public sector employees entitled to organize and assert their rights as workers just because their paycheck comes from the government? Public workers have wages and benefits higher than some in the private sector because they have a union protecting their interests, while most private workers are not unionized and therefore getting hosed by their employers (e.g. Walmart employees).
Simple: public employee + public union + public employer + public politician + public lawyer = complete conflict of interest with all reasonable controls lost. Thus where we find ourselves now after years and years of it. Fooked royal!
Let's get back to reality. We're not talking about reducing hours in the coal mine to 12 per day although most teachers and cops want us to believe that is their fear. $58/hr to screw in a light bulb (and don't say I'm exaggerating...I sign the PO) under NY prevailing wage is no worse than KG teachers making $125k for 180 day year. I don't hate anyone, I'm just tired and annoyed. More so when someone tries to put some silly spin on it.
I've lived in Florida for 40+ years - and have gone through storms. Including Hurricane Andrew. When we were returning to south Florida after evacuating to Orlando for Andrew (couldn't get home - just could get closer to home) - we were overjoyed to see power trucks from all over the place heading south with us (insurance disaster teams were a welcome sight too). Now most places in "storm country" have reciprocal disaster relief arrangements. And the workers don't "leave home" to go to disaster areas for purely altruistic reasons (they get paid pretty well when they volunteer to go to a disaster area). OTOH - they may wind up in fairly basic (or worse) living arrangements. So it's not a walk in the park for them either. But I cannot in a million years imagine Florida turning away relief power crews because of nonsense like union stuff. The primary goal should be getting the lights back on - that's it. People in storm-affected areas here would probably riot against a governor who turned away any legitimate out-of-state power workers (just like people up north get mad at mayors who screw up snow removal after a big storm).
FWIW - private residential electricians get paid pretty well here (at least they charge me a lot ) - even though they're non-union. OTOH - a lot haven't been employed as electricians for a long time here as a result of the housing bust (that's true with a lot of construction jobs). Robyn
P.S. I don't know anything about LIPA or the state of your infrastructure.
BTW - just for a reality check. If any of you have a recent electric bill handy - what do you pay per kilowatt hour? I happen to have this month's electric bill on my desk now. Note that my power company is a small local one up here in NE Florida (moved from SE Florida 15 years ago) that doesn't generate its own power. It just buys power from the cheapest source it can. And I honestly don't know if my rates are cheap or expensive compared to anyone else's. Robyn
Because there is too much of an unfair balance of power.
True in part, and there are excesses, but the answer isn't to ban public sector unions, but, rather, to limit them:
Quote:
Which brings us back to what the rules ought to be. As I see it, the status quo is clearly untenable. I am not ready, however, to outlaw all public employee unions. Instead, I'd preserve the right to bargain collectively while limiting the scope of that right. Public employees unions should be able to negotiate compensation packages, but only the total amount of compensation owed each employee for a period no longer than an election cycle, which would make the costs a lot more predictable and transparent, and build political accountability into the process. As a nudge, the package would be structured, by default, with prudent percentages going to health care and retirement savings, but if the union or the individual employees wanted to override that mix, it would be their business. The municipality would only be in the business of negotiating the total amount it allocates up front to compensate an employee for a given year.
Public employee unions could also negotiate for improved job safety, a core good unions facilitate. But not for job security or seniority requirements (though government employees would enjoy all of the protections against wrongful termination from which folks in the private sector benefit). Especially when it comes to public safety employees and teachers, it's vital that the worst can be fired easily. The public's welfare must be a more urgent priority than job protections so robust that they jeopardize it. (Wrongful termination in the private sector is hardly a huge problem.)
With a Democratic President now re elected nothing will be done to investigated any union action because he owes the unions big time.
It's a state matter, not a federal matter. If Cuomo and our NYS legislators had any guts, they could limit the collective bargaining abilty of public sector unions in NY or make NYS a right to work state, which would dilute their power.
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) - even though they're non-union. OTOH - a lot haven't been employed as electricians for a long time here as a result of the housing bust (that's true with a lot of construction jobs). Robyn
