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Old 05-14-2014, 06:15 PM
 
791 posts, read 1,614,363 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
Many weeks back (likely in one of the many "why move here" or "I'm leaving" threads) I had asked if anyone could compile a list grouping places with the best schools to verify what we always claim... "LI has good schools". Are we being fleeced? Well now we at least know NY qualifies (15 of the 33 NY within top 500 are LI). CA has even more. And with this I considered population size as mentioned.

I would've never known CO, MA, or OH could claim they had great schools and be correct. On the same token, people moving/moved to the Carolinas should never be talking about their schools like they're similar to here.
I still think you're committing a logical error here, as are most folks when they talk about this subject.

Just because there are proportionally more LI schools on "the list," doesn't mean that any particular LI school is "better" than any other school anywhere else. A school in NC or SC that made the top-500 list is, by your own approved measures, better than a school on LI that didn't make the list. So if a family is thinking about relocating, and can't afford a top-500 school on LI but could afford a top-500 school in NC or SC, the fact is, that particular family can afford access to better schools in NC or SC than that particular family could afford on LI.

LI may have a greater number of "top" schools than other locations, but if you can't afford to live in one of those districts (and many, many, many people can't), it's irrelevant, and you're better off (if school quality is your one and only priority, which, of course, for many, it isn't) relocating to an area where you can afford a home in a "top" district, even if the state, overall, has a smaller number of such districts.
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Old 05-14-2014, 06:51 PM
 
Location: Wallens Ridge
3,122 posts, read 4,933,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
Since people always talk about "excellent schools" wherever they may be (especially around here if they've moved away from NY), I thought it would be interesting to compile a list of the best states with great schools - based on the latest US News & World Report rankings' top 500, separated by state. I stopped at top 500 because I had to scroll down for each state individually.

Of course you'd have to consider the population of each state driving the number of schools and so I've derived a ranking based on that ratio - number of schools in the top 500 / state population.

Interestingly, some states often mentioned such as NC & SC were found to have few schools in the top 500. NY is the best state with an appreciable population (over 10 mil). CT, ME, and MA also deserve high commendations. And generally speaking, the northeast seems more focused on education. Many will state that rankings aren't everything, but this is a quick study of statistical figures. Let me know if other things should be considered from a statistical perspective.
I think people put too much emphasis on a particular school or areas and now with your logic states...
Good schools don't always equate success and vice versa...

My sons who go to a school ranked 30 in Va. blew away my nephews psat scores in which one goes to Garden City and the other South Side.. I also assume I'm paying a lot less in school taxes ..

A school with a good reputation is good but the student still has to perform and a lot of that has to do with parenting and other factors..

I also have been seeing a lot of home schooled kids getting into some very very good colleges...and homeschooling is becoming more popular across the country.
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:52 PM
 
Location: Long Island
9,531 posts, read 15,794,121 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by InfoSeeker52 View Post
I still think you're committing a logical error here, as are most folks when they talk about this subject.
Ultimately I wanted to see the big picture - to see if what we claim can be substantiated because people happen to say it all the time here as a general statement. I grew up here so I personally went through the system by chance and wouldn't know if it's a line perpetuated by the teacher's unions. Hell people ask for info on moving here claiming we have good schools.

Conversely people will tell us "LI schools are overrated and I'm paying a fraction of what you're paying and getting good schools too". Those who do it make broad statements never naming districts because it's unlikely a high-rated district to compare to begin with. If it was, then they are likely downgrading based on cost (nothing wrong with that) but they should not be making false or misleading claims. If they won't compare apples to apples, I don't see why we can't compare broad remarks just the same.

I didn't create this to proclaim to the country we're one of the best - we're actually not but close. I did it to fact-find and I kept it local to this forum. And for those who missed it the first time...
Quote:
Many will state that rankings aren't everything, but this is a quick study of statistical figures.
Now I'm curious if teachers in Osprey, FL - first school in the list not a magnet school and ranked #6 overall - make good money. It looks like houses there are pretty pricey but no statement of taxes. They also happen to be right off the water.

Last edited by ovi8; 05-14-2014 at 08:13 PM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:56 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,615 posts, read 36,521,804 times
Reputation: 19824
Quote:
Originally Posted by rh71 View Post
I would've never known CO, MA, or OH could claim they had great schools and be correct. On the same token, people moving/moved to the Carolinas should never be talking about their schools like they're similar to here.
Having never lived anywhere else, it would be impossible for you to judge any difference at all. I think what it all boils down to is the day-to-day experience one has. My experience with the schools here has been really no different than with the schools in Garden City. I really don't know what else to tell you. My kids were not ahead of the kids in their class when we moved here. My youngest child is now at the point in her schooling that her older siblings were at when we moved. If anything she is ahead of them, but again she is a different student than them, had different teachers.

We go back to visit GC several times a year and the older kids visit with friends. They are doing the same things. They aren't necessarily taught the same way. Is one way better than the other? No idea. I've reviewed the state tests from both states and see little difference in the material, The high school we are slated to attend has an average SAT score I think above 1700, I'm not sure what Garden City's is but I doubt it's much higher. My co-worker's child is graduating in 3 weeks from that HS and got into Harvard, Duke, Stanford and UNC Chapel Hill to name a few (and she's not the valedictorian).

We live in an area with the highest concentration of PhDs in the country. People come from all over the country and world to work there and I assure you they place a very high value on education.

You believe that living on Long Island and paying exhorbitant taxes to say you send your kids to school there is worth it - that's fabulous for you. Personally, I see no change in the education being churned out today than from when I went to school on Long Island and I graduated nearly 30 years ago (ugh, that was hard to acknowledge). If anything there have been MANY cuts to the educational experience since then and I know there are many in my old district next year - yet there is a tax increase on the ballot AGAIN. You are NEVER going to convince me that paying $15K in taxes is worth is, not when my DH grew up in the same district, his parents paid about $3000 a year, and they are giving LESS than they did back then. Just not gonna convince me. And I can assure you my kids are going to go to a college that would be more than acceptable to anyone on Long Island. I guarantee it.

I don't think your kids will end up any more successful than mine - not trying to be insulting, and if it does work out that way it will be because of the old sweat equity as much as anything else. But I have two very hard workers so I'm not worried (now the third he's another story.....)
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Old 05-14-2014, 07:58 PM
 
483 posts, read 666,469 times
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When people pay such low taxes as in the other states (one poster mentioned 1500/yr) makes you wonder what is subsidizing that education. 1500 doesn't even get good snow clearance and trash pickup, put everything else into that, how are they getting the money?
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:01 PM
 
Location: under the beautiful Carolina blue
22,615 posts, read 36,521,804 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grilba View Post
When people pay such low taxes as in the other states (one poster mentioned 1500/yr) makes you wonder what is subsidizing that education. 1500 doesn't even get good snow clearance and trash pickup, put everything else into that, how are they getting the money?
Say it with me
Salaries
Pensions
Benefits
Layers and layers and layers of administration
Alas, we have no planetarium at our elementary school. I know - I'll wait while you recover from the horror.

Basically it's called "living within your means" - a concept foreign to the Long Island school boards who have a cash cow (the taxpayers) at their disposal.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:09 PM
 
483 posts, read 666,469 times
Reputation: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Say it with me
Salaries
Pensions
Benefits
Layers and layers and layers of administration
Alas, we have no planetarium at our elementary school. I know - I'll wait while you recover from the horror.

Basically it's called "living within your means" - a concept foreign to the Long Island school boards who have a cash cow (the taxpayers) at their disposal.
I've looked at the stats in other states, it DOES NOT take 1500 to educate a child in PA, or even 3000. No, 9500/year to educate a child. So your hypothetical 2 kids would cost more property taxes than you input your whole life. Add to that everything else that the government does, no, there is something else at play.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:25 PM
 
883 posts, read 3,705,993 times
Reputation: 402
Quote:
Originally Posted by grilba View Post
I've looked at the stats in other states, it DOES NOT take 1500 to educate a child in PA, or even 3000. No, 9500/year to educate a child. So your hypothetical 2 kids would cost more property taxes than you input your whole life. Add to that everything else that the government does, no, there is something else at play.
I've wondered about this as well- it just doesn't add up. Clearly, funding must be coming from *somewhere*- it can't be all from property taxes.
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Old 05-14-2014, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Long Island
9,531 posts, read 15,794,121 times
Reputation: 5948
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Having never lived anywhere else, it would be impossible for you to judge any difference at all.
Again, just based on results and data.

I'll be the first to acknowledge (and have in a prior post) that every kid in every district CAN do just as well or as poorly as anyone else in this country. Do they actually do as well if you look at the data?

This is not to say good test-taking students will certainly get the best job or succeed in life. This is only arguing the merits of paying to live here, or saying what we say - we have verifiable results that we can speak to. You speak about anecdotal evidence and what you "see". All possible, but less likely the norm than a good proven district with like-minded parents, proper motivators in place, and opportunities.

We don't LIKE paying the high amount that we do, but when combined with the quality of life that we have and being near who we know, it does make it worth it. Nobody ever says you should stay and do the same - it's more the other way around - people tell us we're crazy and we shouldn't do it because wow look at what they have now. Parting shots.

Last edited by ovi8; 05-14-2014 at 08:37 PM..
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Old 05-14-2014, 09:12 PM
 
483 posts, read 666,469 times
Reputation: 587
Quote:
Originally Posted by twingles View Post
Having never lived anywhere else, it would be impossible for you to judge any difference at all. I think what it all boils down to is the day-to-day experience one has. My experience with the schools here has been really no different than with the schools in Garden City. I really don't know what else to tell you. My kids were not ahead of the kids in their class when we moved here. My youngest child is now at the point in her schooling that her older siblings were at when we moved. If anything she is ahead of them, but again she is a different student than them, had different teachers.

We go back to visit GC several times a year and the older kids visit with friends. They are doing the same things. They aren't necessarily taught the same way. Is one way better than the other? No idea. I've reviewed the state tests from both states and see little difference in the material, The high school we are slated to attend has an average SAT score I think above 1700, I'm not sure what Garden City's is but I doubt it's much higher. My co-worker's child is graduating in 3 weeks from that HS and got into Harvard, Duke, Stanford and UNC Chapel Hill to name a few (and she's not the valedictorian).

We live in an area with the highest concentration of PhDs in the country. People come from all over the country and world to work there and I assure you they place a very high value on education.

You believe that living on Long Island and paying exhorbitant taxes to say you send your kids to school there is worth it - that's fabulous for you. Personally, I see no change in the education being churned out today than from when I went to school on Long Island and I graduated nearly 30 years ago (ugh, that was hard to acknowledge). If anything there have been MANY cuts to the educational experience since then and I know there are many in my old district next year - yet there is a tax increase on the ballot AGAIN. You are NEVER going to convince me that paying $15K in taxes is worth is, not when my DH grew up in the same district, his parents paid about $3000 a year, and they are giving LESS than they did back then. Just not gonna convince me. And I can assure you my kids are going to go to a college that would be more than acceptable to anyone on Long Island. I guarantee it.

I don't think your kids will end up any more successful than mine - not trying to be insulting, and if it does work out that way it will be because of the old sweat equity as much as anything else. But I have two very hard workers so I'm not worried (now the third he's another story.....)
It probably depends on the location. Certainly a place in the Triangle, in an affluent area with many PhD's is going to do well. What about for hoi polloi? When you go to the schools that are less affluent, with less educated parents? Compare a working class/lower middle class town in NC to Levittown or FDale. Also, take Southern SAT scores with a grain of salt. The percentage of students in the South that take SAT is much smaller, in my old HS in NY, just about everyone took the SAT.
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