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Your study from a decade ago needs to be updated given the tax cap state law.
Not my study (Syracuse University), Newsday quoted it 18 months ago.
In a different and more recent article, Newsday notes:
"Twenty-nine school districts on Long Island have enrollments of less than 1,500, a range considered to give the best chance for cost savings in a merger." Long Island school districts and enrollments
At this points those who are familiar with the issue agree consolidations - for any but the tiniest districts - are not cost savers.
If Northport loses out big time with the LILICO issue, what on earth is the benefit for them or their new partner? As some commenters know, under state law both districts must vote for it.
The amount of the combined enrollment of both districts in 10 years is just about what Harborfields is graduating now. The less administrators and staff could translate into expanded services which is something both districts severely lack. To take it a step further- the closed schools could be sold off to developers who would put those properties back on the tax roles, generating further revenue.
You meant 10 years from now? And then further after the sale and commercial development of Elwood High School Property (putting it on the tax rolls and generating so much tax money Harborfields residents actually want to consolidate)? Couple of holes in that long-term plan but I don't have time to address them.
Again, there are essentially no cost savings via consolidation of districts. All experts agree. The state, recognizing this, offers some hefty incentives to consolidate (but this still does not make up the increased costs).
Not my study (Syracuse University), Newsday quoted it 18 months ago.
In a different and more recent article, Newsday notes:
"Twenty-nine school districts on Long Island have enrollments of less than 1,500, a range considered to give the best chance for cost savings in a merger." Long Island school districts and enrollments
At this points those who are familiar with the issue agree consolidations - for any but the tiniest districts - are not cost savers.
If Northport loses out big time with the LILICO issue, what on earth is the benefit for them or their new partner? As some commenters know, under state law both districts must vote for it.
I just checked out the study. The study acknowledges that the main reason costs go up after consolidation are the capital expenditures due to state assistance. Also, the study is analyzing schools in rural upstate NY that do not place the same value on education as most schools on Long Island. Indeed, the desire for services is one of the data points in the study. Given the state tax cap and the above, this study is really not relevant to the discussion on Long Island, despite what the paper of record, Newsday (lol) may parrot.
And by the way, the increased costs posited in the study would be absorbed by the NYS taxpayer (given the state assistance on capital expenditures) and local taxpayers would realize the net tax benefit.
Last edited by chetstash; 01-24-2016 at 06:39 PM..
I just looked it up, the study is about rural districts in New York. Things could be different in population-dense suburbs.
Check my other post. Study is likely not at all applicable to LI given its age, data set and conclusion (that the reason for costs going up is capital expenditures due to state assistance).
At the end of the day, local taxpayers would in all likelihood see a net tax benefit even given this study.
Just like Long Island, Westchester has high taxes. This article compared Westchester to Fairfax, Virginia which has one school district for the entire county. Fairfax as better schools and much lower property taxes while paying teachers less and having less administrative costs due to the fact they only have one school district. A portion of the article is shown in the following text.
Good schools don’t have to cost a lot, though. Residents of Fairfax County, Virginia, send their kids to schools that were operated for $2.2 billion in 2008, the same year we spent $1.3 billion more—to educate fewer kids. Oh, as mentioned earlier, Fairfax residents’ average property tax bill is $4,600, or about half of ours. Other than that, the two counties are remarkably similar. Fairfax is a suburb of a major city (Washington, DC); has 1,010,000 people (versus our 950,000); a median household income of $126,000 (against our $111,000); and an average home value of $556,000 (ours is $582,000). The cost of living is comparable, too. Their schools had 165,000 pupils in 2008; we had 145,000. Excluding debt service, we spent $24,000 to educate each of ours—Fairfax spent $13,000.
Yes, but Westchester schools are nationally known. They have stellar reputations. What college admissions officer hasn’t heard of Scarsdale High? Or Horace Greeley? Or Edgemont High? But…hold on…so are Fairfax County schools. By most standards, their academic achievements were just as good as ours, if not better. Fairfax students in the class of 2008 had an average combined SAT score of 1654. This year, the average high school in Westchester scored 1598. The four-year graduation rate was the same for both counties: 91 percent, and about the same percentage of students went on to college: 93 percent for Fairfax, 94 percent for Westchester. On the June 2009, Newsweek magazine list of America’s Top High Schools, Fairfax had 11 schools in the top 200, while Westchester had eight. So what accounts for the difference in the cost of the schools?
For one thing, Westchester’s 13,000 teachers belong to New York State United Teachers (NYSUT), while non-teaching support personnel are members of Local 1000 of the Civil Service Employees Association. Virginia is a right-to-work state where unions aren’t a big factor. The pay scales reflect it, too. In Katonah, for example, beginning teachers earn $52,000, whereas those at the top of the scale make $138,000. In Fairfax, it’s $47,000 to $99,000. When you multiply it times the number of teachers in Westchester, the difference hits your tax bill like a Big Mac hits your waistline.
Salaries vary widely depending on the district, the teacher’s experience, and many other factors, but the average teacher here earns about $89,000. The national average teacher salary was $51,000 in 2006, the latest figure available from the American Federation of Teachers. The salary range between beginning teachers and those with more experience and education is tremendous. Taking the average, though, we’re paying our teachers well over a billion dollars a year.
“It sounds like a lot, but have you looked at the cost of living in Westchester?†asks NYSUT spokesman Carl Korn. “Try buying a home on a teacher’s salary.†When you look strictly at average salaries, Korn is close to correct. According to City-Data.com, Westchester’s cost of living index is 157 (the U.S. average is 100). Calculated the same way, our teacher’s salary index is 175 vs. the U.S. average.
It’s not just salaries, though. The two costliest benefits are health insurance and retirement. As in every other sector of our economy, health insurance takes an ever-increasing bite out of school budgets. Overall, it represented $335 million in 2008. Taxpayers bear almost the entire burden of health insurance for school employees. Statewide, teachers pay 10 to 13 percent of their insurance premiums. Katonah’s contract with the union calls for an 11-percent employee contribution. Non-teaching personnel pay a comparable share.
Funding pension plans is a major expense—and a ticking time bomb. “The pension system is structurally broken and not sustainable,†says Harrison School Superintendent Louis Wool. “In a bad year, that line can blow a budget to smithereens. For the 2010-11 budget year, Harrison’s pension costs increased by $1.5 million, a 45-percent increase. “There’s no way for me to mitigate that impact no matter how well I plan.†For County schools as a whole, pension funding was $158 million in 2008.
The problem is that the state-mandated pension plans for school-district employees are defined benefit plans, which means the amount of future benefits is guaranteed and has to be funded by the taxpayers and/or investment income. When stocks and bonds take a big dip (remember 2008?), the state pension plan does, too, and school districts, towns and villages, and other participants get a larger-than-normal bill. Retirees are also living longer, so their guaranteed benefits are paid for more years, which means the fund has to be replenished more generously. “Schools have zero leeway when it comes to pension plans,†Lisa Davis, executive director of the Westchester-Putnam School Boards Association, explains. “The terms are entirely mandated by the state.â€
Teachers are covered by the Teachers Retirement System and others participate in the Employee Retirement System. Current employees contribute an insignificant amount, although a recent change in state law created a new level (Tier V) that requires a 4.85 percent annual contribution by teachers who start in 2010 and raises the minimum retirement age to 57 with 30 years of service. As Wool says, however, “Tier V won’t have an impact on school districts until my children have children.â€
Another major difference between Fairfax County and Westchester schools is administrative costs. Fairfax County has one school district. Westchester has 40. They pay one superintendent of schools, we pay 40 of them—as well as at least 40 assistant superintendents, system-wide technology directors, purchasing agents, transportation directors, and other central office staffers with the attendant overhead.
All that overhead is costly. The superintendent of schools in Fairfax County earns $292,469 annually to manage about 200 schools with 165,000 students. Three of our superintendents (Scarsdale, Rye City, and Tuckahoe) make more than he does. The largest of those three districts, Scarsdale, has seven schools with 4,800 kids. Tuckahoe has two schools with about 1,000 students. Taken together, our 40 superintendents made over $10 million in 2009. Efficient we’re not.
The answer would be consolidation, but we’re not very logical when it comes to our schools. Davis says consolidation of districts may not be politically feasible (or even desirable). “Even if Westchester had just one large school district, you’re not going to dramatically change your biggest cost unless you enlarge class size. Education is very people-intensive and that’s why it’s very expensive.†Class sizes in Fairfax, though, are equivalent to ours, according to Sperling’s Best Places to Live, while National Center for Education Statistics data for 2007-’08 show Westchester with 1,900 district-wide administrators and staffers. Fairfax had 1,200.
“A big part of our cost savings is economy of scale,†says Fairfax County Public Schools spokesman Paul Reigner, who also happens to have worked for the NYS Department of Education a few years ago. “You’ve got all these different school systems while we have one big one, with one superintendent, one school board, one leadership team.â€
Just like Long Island, Westchester has high taxes. This article compared Westchester to Fairfax, Virginia which has one school district for the entire county. Fairfax as better schools and much lower property taxes while paying teachers less and having less administrative costs due to the fact they only have one school district. A portion of the article is shown in the following text.
Good schools don’t have to cost a lot, though. Residents of Fairfax County, Virginia, send their kids to schools that were operated for $2.2 billion in 2008, the same year we spent $1.3 billion more—to educate fewer kids. Oh, as mentioned earlier, Fairfax residents’ average property tax bill is $4,600, or about half of ours. Other than that, the two counties are remarkably similar. Fairfax is a suburb of a major city (Washington, DC); has 1,010,000 people (versus our 950,000); a median household income of $126,000 (against our $111,000); and an average home value of $556,000 (ours is $582,000). The cost of living is comparable, too. Their schools had 165,000 pupils in 2008; we had 145,000. Excluding debt service, we spent $24,000 to educate each of ours—Fairfax spent $13,000.
Yes, but Westchester schools are nationally known. They have stellar reputations. What college admissions officer hasn’t heard of Scarsdale High? Or Horace Greeley? Or Edgemont High? But…hold on…so are Fairfax County schools. By most standards, their academic achievements were just as good as ours, if not better. Fairfax students in the class of 2008 had an average combined SAT score of 1654. This year, the average high school in Westchester scored 1598. The four-year graduation rate was the same for both counties: 91 percent, and about the same percentage of students went on to college: 93 percent for Fairfax, 94 percent for Westchester. On the June 2009, Newsweek magazine list of America’s Top High Schools, Fairfax had 11 schools in the top 200, while Westchester had eight. So what accounts for the difference in the cost of the schools?
For one thing, Westchester’s 13,000 teachers belong to New York State United Teachers (NYSUT), while non-teaching support personnel are members of Local 1000 of the Civil Service Employees Association. Virginia is a right-to-work state where unions aren’t a big factor. The pay scales reflect it, too. In Katonah, for example, beginning teachers earn $52,000, whereas those at the top of the scale make $138,000. In Fairfax, it’s $47,000 to $99,000. When you multiply it times the number of teachers in Westchester, the difference hits your tax bill like a Big Mac hits your waistline.
Salaries vary widely depending on the district, the teacher’s experience, and many other factors, but the average teacher here earns about $89,000. The national average teacher salary was $51,000 in 2006, the latest figure available from the American Federation of Teachers. The salary range between beginning teachers and those with more experience and education is tremendous. Taking the average, though, we’re paying our teachers well over a billion dollars a year.
“It sounds like a lot, but have you looked at the cost of living in Westchester?” asks NYSUT spokesman Carl Korn. “Try buying a home on a teacher’s salary.” When you look strictly at average salaries, Korn is close to correct. According to City-Data.com, Westchester’s cost of living index is 157 (the U.S. average is 100). Calculated the same way, our teacher’s salary index is 175 vs. the U.S. average.
It’s not just salaries, though. The two costliest benefits are health insurance and retirement. As in every other sector of our economy, health insurance takes an ever-increasing bite out of school budgets. Overall, it represented $335 million in 2008. Taxpayers bear almost the entire burden of health insurance for school employees. Statewide, teachers pay 10 to 13 percent of their insurance premiums. Katonah’s contract with the union calls for an 11-percent employee contribution. Non-teaching personnel pay a comparable share.
Funding pension plans is a major expense—and a ticking time bomb. “The pension system is structurally broken and not sustainable,” says Harrison School Superintendent Louis Wool. “In a bad year, that line can blow a budget to smithereens. For the 2010-11 budget year, Harrison’s pension costs increased by $1.5 million, a 45-percent increase. “There’s no way for me to mitigate that impact no matter how well I plan.” For County schools as a whole, pension funding was $158 million in 2008.
The problem is that the state-mandated pension plans for school-district employees are defined benefit plans, which means the amount of future benefits is guaranteed and has to be funded by the taxpayers and/or investment income. When stocks and bonds take a big dip (remember 2008?), the state pension plan does, too, and school districts, towns and villages, and other participants get a larger-than-normal bill. Retirees are also living longer, so their guaranteed benefits are paid for more years, which means the fund has to be replenished more generously. “Schools have zero leeway when it comes to pension plans,” Lisa Davis, executive director of the Westchester-Putnam School Boards Association, explains. “The terms are entirely mandated by the state.”
Teachers are covered by the Teachers Retirement System and others participate in the Employee Retirement System. Current employees contribute an insignificant amount, although a recent change in state law created a new level (Tier V) that requires a 4.85 percent annual contribution by teachers who start in 2010 and raises the minimum retirement age to 57 with 30 years of service. As Wool says, however, “Tier V won’t have an impact on school districts until my children have children.”
Another major difference between Fairfax County and Westchester schools is administrative costs. Fairfax County has one school district. Westchester has 40. They pay one superintendent of schools, we pay 40 of them—as well as at least 40 assistant superintendents, system-wide technology directors, purchasing agents, transportation directors, and other central office staffers with the attendant overhead.
All that overhead is costly. The superintendent of schools in Fairfax County earns $292,469 annually to manage about 200 schools with 165,000 students. Three of our superintendents (Scarsdale, Rye City, and Tuckahoe) make more than he does. The largest of those three districts, Scarsdale, has seven schools with 4,800 kids. Tuckahoe has two schools with about 1,000 students. Taken together, our 40 superintendents made over $10 million in 2009. Efficient we’re not.
The answer would be consolidation, but we’re not very logical when it comes to our schools. Davis says consolidation of districts may not be politically feasible (or even desirable). “Even if Westchester had just one large school district, you’re not going to dramatically change your biggest cost unless you enlarge class size. Education is very people-intensive and that’s why it’s very expensive.” Class sizes in Fairfax, though, are equivalent to ours, according to Sperling’s Best Places to Live, while National Center for Education Statistics data for 2007-’08 show Westchester with 1,900 district-wide administrators and staffers. Fairfax had 1,200.
“A big part of our cost savings is economy of scale,” says Fairfax County Public Schools spokesman Paul Reigner, who also happens to have worked for the NYS Department of Education a few years ago. “You’ve got all these different school systems while we have one big one, with one superintendent, one school board, one leadership team.”
I'd be shocked if Fairfax has better schools than Westchester (full disclosure- I went to public school in Westchester!) Notwithstanding, the concept is just common sense... consolidation saves money for the local tax base by eliminating duplicative administrators, staff and school buildings.
I'd be shocked if Fairfax has better schools than Westchester (full disclosure- I went to public school in Westchester!) Notwithstanding, the concept is just common sense... consolidation saves money for the local tax base by eliminating duplicative administrators, staff and school buildings.
Fairfax County has nearly double the Fortune 500 companies that Westchester does.
Economy and state aid are far more influential to your school taxes than sheer staff salaries.
'Duplicate' Administrators would still need to exist if consolidation happened, unless you believe there are administrators who only need to function part time in their existing school district to get the job done. If that's the case, then it's a different problem to address.
I personally would love to see consolidated school districts, on a County or Township basis. There are too many "chiefs" and it's part of the reason school taxes are so high.
Having a County-Wide school district, say, in Nassau, would lower taxes and level the rather unfair and segregated playing field. I would also consolidate library districts, the Nassau Library System already exists so it would just be one more stop. The problem, is that people in some of the more well to do towns will throw a fit about it, since they are so determined to keep "others" out of their schools, even if it means they're paying higher taxes (which many of them can afford, but continue to whine about it).
To me, its a no brainer. Imagine all the superintendents and administrators who we would no longer need!
Fairfax County has nearly double the Fortune 500 companies that Westchester does.
Economy and state aid are far more influential to your school taxes than sheer staff salaries.
'Duplicate' Administrators would still need to exist if consolidation happened, unless you believe there are administrators who only need to function part time in their existing school district to get the job done. If that's the case, then it's a different problem to address.
I think some folks assume when you combine two similarly sized districts you fire half the administrators, half the teachers, sell off half the buildings and save a fortune. Seems a no brainer when you look at it this way and no amount of data or scientific inquiry or actual experience will convince these folks there is not a homeowner property tax savings in consolidation. Even if these folks eventually realize their assumptions are completely or mostly false they nevertheless remain convinced there are homeowner property tax reductions in consolidation.
Other folks see our unconsolidated districts (A) and our high property taxes (B) and just know that A causes B. Those folks can generate a list of areas with lower property taxes and more consolidated schools to further prove the simplistic "A causes B". Statements such as "Economy and state aid are far more influential to your school taxes than sheer staff salaries." or other explanations for perceived cost differences simply cannot enter the simple A causes B equation.
Last edited by Quick Commenter; 01-25-2016 at 03:59 AM..
While I think it makes sense given LI's changing demographics, I agree that the issue is not as cut and dry as firing half of all staff, etc. There are many moving parts and complexities involved and I look forward to more research coming out on the subject.
At the end of the day even in the face of a positive study, we on LI will likely not experience any consolidation unless and until the state decides to further incentive the process above and beyond what they already do to encourage it (which is more than most states).
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