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Old 12-31-2007, 12:14 PM
 
242 posts, read 632,391 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
The only thing Smithtown appears to be doing is making is hard for minorities entitled to Section 8 to live in their community. There's a 93% chance that anyone who receives scattered site housing assistance in the town will be white. That sounds un-American to me.
Its unamerican borderline fascist for the government to force a town to allow poor people to move in. My family lived in Jamaica Queens and we moved with our own money to Nassau County after we suffered a home invasion.....

If someone wants to live somewhere nice they have to earn it!

BEGGARS BE CAN"T CHOOSERS!!!!

Last edited by Jrock247; 12-31-2007 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 12-31-2007, 12:15 PM
 
1,775 posts, read 3,951,318 times
Reputation: 447
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrock247 View Post
Its unamerican borderline fascist for the government to force a town to allow poor people to move in. My family lived in Jamaica Queens and we moved with our own money to Nassau County after we suffered a home invasion.....

If someone wants to live somewhere nice they have to earn it!

BEGGARS CAN"T CHOOSERS!!!!
My sentiments as well.
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Old 12-31-2007, 01:00 PM
 
Location: South Side
3,555 posts, read 6,391,892 times
Reputation: 1174
Default Odd

I find the recent posts odd. There are many types of government asisstance including unemployment insurance, social security and loans to business about to go under. People don't call those folks beggars. Maybe the town should be called a beggar because it lined up for federal funds?

But the issue is not the quality of folks who are apply for Section 8 -- the issue is if a town can pretty clearly practice racial discrimination. Even a beggar deserves a better break than that.
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Old 12-31-2007, 03:37 PM
 
706 posts, read 2,424,183 times
Reputation: 321
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleenh54 View Post
Why is is that minorities are hell-bent on moving to white communities? Whites are not in a rush to move to minority communities. What does that mean in our society? Do we really want to know? What makes the white communities so desirable?
Yeah, why them so and so's wanna come live in our lily white neighborhoods?

Why don't they stay in their own neighborhoods where they belong!!
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:20 AM
 
242 posts, read 632,391 times
Reputation: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
I find the recent posts odd. There are many types of government asisstance including unemployment insurance, social security and loans to business about to go under. People don't call those folks beggars. Maybe the town should be called a beggar because it lined up for federal funds?

But the issue is not the quality of folks who are apply for Section 8 -- the issue is if a town can pretty clearly practice racial discrimination. Even a beggar deserves a better break than that.
No the issue is whether or not a town can limit section 8 applicants to those who are already residents.

Don't forget the citizens of Smithtown pay federal taxes. Don't they get a say in whose housing they subsidize. Notice the practice also clearly discriminates against white applicants from outside of smithtown.
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Old 01-01-2008, 10:27 AM
 
1,775 posts, read 3,951,318 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrock247 View Post
Notice the practice also clearly discriminates against white applicants from outside of smithtown.

Some people don't care about that simple fact of this matter. Instead, they try to capitalize on any opportunity to cry racism.

I said the same thing early on in this thread. Notice the whites who were denied are not bringing about a lawsuit (right, b/c they can't since they cannot cry racism). The lawsuit is coming from only black and spanish people who figure playing the race card might get them what they want (yet don't qualify for as non residents/employees).

When the truth comes out in court that non resident whites were equally denied, hope that is enough evidence to make this case fall flat on it's face in court.

Last edited by Glad2BHere; 01-01-2008 at 10:39 AM..
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Old 01-01-2008, 12:41 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
13,692 posts, read 15,355,524 times
Reputation: 4536
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manigault View Post
I find the recent posts odd. There are many types of government asisstance including unemployment insurance, social security and loans to business about to go under. People don't call those folks beggars. Maybe the town should be called a beggar because it lined up for federal funds?

But the issue is not the quality of folks who are apply for Section 8 -- the issue is if a town can pretty clearly practice racial discrimination. Even a beggar deserves a better break than that.
A person will work for an employer and the employer pays employment insurance based upon payroll. Employers are funding UI. I have to file my payments to NYS on a quarterly basis. Employers who have more lay-offs (and thus more former employees claiming) pay a higher percentage than those who do not.

Unemployment is NOT government assistance, it is a form of insurance i.e. Unemployment Insurance http://www.labor.state.ny.us/ui/ui_index.shtm

Someone receiving unemployment benefits while legitimately looking for new work is not a beggar by any means. Someone sitting on their tush not trying to find skill appropriate work and collecting for the maximum number of weeks is milking the system.

Social Security is funded by employees -- it is deducted from their paychecks. In order for a person to claim SS benefits, they must meet certain prescribed criteria. There are instances where people are elligible without meeting the necessary requirements, and that is upsetting to the people who have put in many years and are witnessing the age at which they can collect increase while their benefit amount decreases.

The government has a hand in administering the benefits and making a big, muddled mess of the system. However the government is not putting the money in, the workers are. This is not government assistance.

Some foolish individuals are counting on SS retirement as a pension and not putting away money. These individuals will be the ones seeking federal handouts when the money dries up. When the Social Security money dries up, these people will be seeking Government Assistance.

If the government provides a loan to a small business -- whether or not it is to start up or to save it from going under, that loan is expected to be repaid. Should all loans be considered assistance?

Are the Section 8, welfare, food stamps, and whatever other taxpayer subsidized programs (aka assistance) recipients required to repay their benefits like any of us would be expected to repay a loan? (Asking in all seriousness -- I am not familiar with the 'strings' and 'fine print' within he programs.)

Personally, I feel that programs like Habitat for Humanity are wonderful as they give people of limited resources a shot at the American Dream...the teach a man to fish adage. If there is a community that has fallen on hard times and people are coming in to build new homes and have a vested interest in the community and the schools, that is where one is going to see a turn around and a community that is going to become desirable to people with each improvement.

If a person is Section 8, they should get first crack at H4H homes. If they decline the opportunity without a very good reason, they should lose their Section 8 eligibility. Here are people who could be pioneers, who could be given a fresh new start, who deserve a chance at a home in an area that they can afford. They can help to take back communities and be a catalyst for change. I don't care what color the person is -- motivation is what I respect.

Someone on the board wrote that the biggest problem is the slumlords -- and in Huntington, the biggest slumlord is one of the biggest Section 8 landlords. I couldn't afford to live next to him -- he has a big, gated estate property in Old Field on the water. If a town were to enact a law as to the number of 'investment' properties an absentee landlord could own within a town, that might be create a sea change for a neighborhood. But it is probably illegal to do such -- or at least any proposed change could be vigorously fought by a fat cat slumlord.
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:05 PM
 
Location: South Side
3,555 posts, read 6,391,892 times
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Default Legal Principles

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glad2BHere View Post
Some people don't care about that simple fact of this matter. Instead, they try to capitalize on any opportunity to cry racism.

I said the same thing early on in this thread. Notice the whites who were denied are not bringing about a lawsuit (right, b/c they can't since they cannot cry racism). The lawsuit is coming from only black and spanish people who figure playing the race card might get them what they want (yet don't qualify for as non residents/employees).

When the truth comes out in court that non resident whites were equally denied, hope that is enough evidence to make this case fall flat on it's face in court.
In discrimination law there is something which is called a pretext -- netural on its face but having a clearly discriminatory effect. Like a height requirement for city cops or a residency requirement for city jobs. Also, it has been federal law for decades that a municipality cannot continue a practice which has the effect of being racially discriminatory, no matter how long they have been doing it or how well-intentioned.

So then we examine Smithtown, who's intentions in this incident are at least suspect. Whites could sue about Smithtown cooking the books in favor of town residents and charge discrimination, as noted, because they are being deprived of the right to associate with others in a diverse community. [All of this is mentioned in the filed complaint.] So the lawsuit challenging the practice is not just for minorities. One other thing about lawsuits, in order to sue you have to be a person disadvantaged by the act you are complaining about -- you can't just sue for fun there's a requirement of 'standing'. So it stands to reason a minority member might sue. Finally, since the people who are eligible for section 8 and do not reside in Smithtown are mostly minorities, even probablilty suggests that it would be a minority complaining about the town's peccadilloes.

Let's cut to the chase and read between the lines: Am I the only one here who considers that, at the end of the day, attempting to keep outsiders out of a town based on race, is simply un-American?
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:31 PM
 
414 posts, read 1,094,469 times
Reputation: 155
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Originally Posted by DonnaReed View Post
Yeah, why them so and so's wanna come live in our lily white neighborhoods?

Why don't they stay in their own neighborhoods where they belong!!
Or make their own neighborhoods desireable?
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Old 01-01-2008, 01:34 PM
 
414 posts, read 1,094,469 times
Reputation: 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomMoser View Post
Perhaps it is because, although they are of limited means, they want to live in a safer place. Perhaps they want their children to be in a better schoold district. Unfortunately, "minority communities" are often not the greatest place to live not because of the residents, but because of the slumlords who control the housing. By the way, those slumlords, are your neighbors.
I wanted my kids to live in a good school district also. We moved to the town with a house we could afford and made the best of it. I wish Section 8 would have enabled me to dictate which school district to choose and have someone else foot the bill.
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