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At the risk of interrupting the usual stellar brain-melting discussions on here...this could be considered interesting to those who actually read and care. How it hasn't been posted yet is another testament to the downward spiraling excrement fest the LICD forums have become. Shame, like LI, used to be a good thing. Bye.
From Newsday, "The Index, an organization that explores and reports on Long Island issues, commissioned HR&A Advisors Inc., a New York City economic development consultancy, to study census and other..." They are advocating for multifamily housing and biomedical development. I just returned from Johns Hopkins where biomedical development, (some of the best in the world), went sour and stale. There was no one to fill or pay for the space they touted. It brought few jobs.
Anyway, seems like there's a bit of an agenda here.
HR&A Advisors mission: “We founded this firm to continue the reinvention of the American city into vibrant urban centers that offer jobs and sustain a high quality of life for diverse communities.”
Long Island is not an American City. While I don't discredit the firm's professional background, paying for a study to further your own agenda and mission statement, and then apply it to the outlier situation of LI, to me, seems a bit off. Bit biased too.
Can you please explain how its furthering their own agenda?
Thanks..
An organization who specializes in *urban* economic development in American *cities* is commissioned to conduct a study that ends up condoning urban development (i.e., multifamily housing, high density) in a historically suburban region. Most of their featured work if you visit their web site has been conducted in large metropolitan cities, such as Manhattan, Boston, and Los Angeles.
If it were an objective academic institution or a Center that specializes in suburban studies, for instance, that was commissioned to conduct a study and compose a state-of-the-County report, I would feel a bit more comfortable with the relationship.
There's been an influx of activity lately in our region that has attempted to sell the urbanization of the County; this seems to add fuel to the fire. This wasn't something the County commissioned either, rather, a non-profit group with an interesting Board. Just my opinion on the matter.
Absolutely correct! The ones pushing the "affordable housing" agenda are the ones connected in some way to the developers and so-called researchers who try to convince LI that we need to add more than our fair share of apartment buildings and complexes. And we are all coming to realize that these developers etc are now in the business of contributing to our local officials campaign chests to help get them what they want!
Yes, I realize that LI needs affordable housing for our young people who can't afford to buy houses. But part of the problem is that there isn't a good supply of full-time decent salaried jobs for them here. The other part of the problem, aside from high single family house costs, is that the "affordable housing" that is being touted is not really affordable! Also, some towns are being bombarded with approvals for these projects while others get none. The impact on local services is going to be overwhelming in some cases, especially on our schools, as well as traffic and parking availability - each project seems to get parking variances as well as tax breaks in my village, there is no stopping the town board anymore!
Case in point...one new project in my town which built two stories on top of retail stores in the village, has 12 apartments...studios go for $2500+ a month! Only 425 sq.ft.! A two bedroom apt. is going for over $3500-3700! Who is going to pay that? Certainly not the young adults we are supposedly trying to keep on LI! These are not luxury apartments by any means, there are no perks there like a pool or even on-site parking!
None of the projects in my village can be considered "transit-oriented" housing, as it is not near the train station and buses are very limited. People would have to walk a few to several blocks to get the bus that goes to the train station, several miles down the road.
I just don't like where this is all going, at least not in my town!
Absolutely correct! The ones pushing the "affordable housing" agenda are the ones connected in some way to the developers and so-called researchers who try to convince LI that we need to add more than our fair share of apartment buildings and complexes. And we are all coming to realize that these developers etc are now in the business of contributing to our local officials campaign chests to help get them what they want!
Yes, I realize that LI needs affordable housing for our young people who can't afford to buy houses. But part of the problem is that there isn't a good supply of full-time decent salaried jobs for them here. The other part of the problem, aside from high single family house costs, is that the "affordable housing" that is being touted is not really affordable! Also, some towns are being bombarded with approvals for these projects while others get none. The impact on local services is going to be overwhelming in some cases, especially on our schools, as well as traffic and parking availability - each project seems to get parking variances as well as tax breaks in my village, there is no stopping the town board anymore!
Case in point...one new project in my town which built two stories on top of retail stores in the village, has 12 apartments...studios go for $2500+ a month! Only 425 sq.ft.! A two bedroom apt. is going for over $3500-3700! Who is going to pay that? Certainly not the young adults we are supposedly trying to keep on LI! These are not luxury apartments by any means, there are no perks there like a pool or even on-site parking!
None of the projects in my village can be considered "transit-oriented" housing, as it is not near the train station and buses are very limited. People would have to walk a few to several blocks to get the bus that goes to the train station, several miles down the road.
I just don't like where this is all going, at least not in my town!
This is not borne out out by the facts:
"Based on census data, 21 percent of Long Island’s households live in rentals, compared with 33 percent in Western Connecticut, 34 percent in the Hudson Valley and 37 percent in Northern New Jersey, numbers analysts consider a healthier portion." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/re...anted=all&_r=0
The other issues you mentioned would potentially be addressed with more rentals. With places to live, younger people would not need to move to find jobs that pay enough for them live on their own. This gives businesses a pool of more affordable workers since not all jobs are going to start out a 6 figures so the employee can afford a house. More rental choices in general would bring down the price of those village studios.
The alternative LI generally stays a bedroom community of NYC with higher prices for services per resident since costs go up and there is no expanded tax base to pay for them. This leads to younger folks moving away to more affordable areas, leading to fewer jobs since there are less affordable workers and so on. Staying the course LI won't fall apart, it will just get even more expensive.
"Based on census data, 21 percent of Long Island’s households live in rentals, compared with 33 percent in Western Connecticut, 34 percent in the Hudson Valley and 37 percent in Northern New Jersey, numbers analysts consider a healthier portion." http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/22/re...anted=all&_r=0
The other issues you mentioned would potentially be addressed with more rentals. With places to live, younger people would not need to move to find jobs that pay enough for them live on their own. This gives businesses a pool of more affordable workers since not all jobs are going to start out a 6 figures so the employee can afford a house. More rental choices in general would bring down the price of those village studios.
The alternative LI generally stays a bedroom community of NYC with higher prices for services per resident since costs go up and there is no expanded tax base to pay for them. This leads to younger folks moving away to more affordable areas, leading to fewer jobs since there are less affordable workers and so on. Staying the course LI won't fall apart, it will just get even more expensive.
"Blame for the {Long Island} problem can be laid at the feet of many of the island’s nearly 100 village governments, whose zoning bans have severely restricted multifamily housing, said Christopher Jones, the vice president of research for the Regional Plan Association and an author of the report."
This, was also quoted from that same article. Multifamily, high density housing will be placed in hamlets and unincorporated towns. The village-laden North Shore gets to retain its suburban charm, the remainder of the Island becomes urbanized. That's segregative practice, and, not spreading the affordability wealth. I'm not completely opposed to reasonable development, but, not at the expense of the health of certain neighborhoods.
I'm not disputing that LI is mostly single family homes, but that is how the developers set it up back in the 50's when everyone from Queens etc wanted to move out here to get away from urban settings!
Now there is a mad rush to build "up" since there is little room to spread "out" anymore. But my whole point here is that some towns are being targeted with a lot of apartment projects as others are getting none. I live in Huntington, yes, a North Shore town that is not getting to keep it's suburban charm! So I don't buy the thought that the rest of the island is suffering overdevelopment as the North Shore gets to remain quiet, woodsy and suburban.
Developers will be going after any village that has a downtown where apartments can be built over retail, they will be going after plots near any train station to build complexes, they will be donating their millions to your town councilmen and supervisors to look the other way and give them zoning variances and approvals for their projects.
The falsehood is that this housing is affordable, because it clearly is not. Even apartments for rent in single family homes are getting expensive - you get a bedroom for $800 or more a month? Studios going for over $2,000? At those rates, either the apartments won't be rented or they will simply go to higher salaried people. We will still be losing our young adults who can't afford those rents. Or perhaps we'll end up with a housing glut and all those prices will come crashing down just to get them off the market.
I'm not disputing that LI is mostly single family homes, but that is how the developers set it up back in the 50's when everyone from Queens etc wanted to move out here to get away from urban settings!
Now there is a mad rush to build "up" since there is little room to spread "out" anymore. But my whole point here is that some towns are being targeted with a lot of apartment projects as others are getting none. I live in Huntington, yes, a North Shore town that is not getting to keep it's suburban charm! So I don't buy the thought that the rest of the island is suffering overdevelopment as the North Shore gets to remain quiet, woodsy and suburban.
Developers will be going after any village that has a downtown where apartments can be built over retail, they will be going after plots near any train station to build complexes, they will be donating their millions to your town councilmen and supervisors to look the other way and give them zoning variances and approvals for their projects.
The falsehood is that this housing is affordable, because it clearly is not. Even apartments for rent in single family homes are getting expensive - you get a bedroom for $800 or more a month? Studios going for over $2,000? At those rates, either the apartments won't be rented or they will simply go to higher salaried people. We will still be losing our young adults who can't afford those rents. Or perhaps we'll end up with a housing glut and all those prices will come crashing down just to get them off the market.
You're in Suffolk, I wasn't specific. I was really referring to Nassau County's North Shore. Anything north of Jericho Turnpike really. I'm not as familiar with Suffolk, or Huntington, to speak intelligently about your region. But, as noted, my concern, like yours, is a concentration of development (high density, whether ownership or rental), in only certain sections of Long Island.
The push is already starting, I highly recommend everyone taking a look at their Town agendas and start visiting the monthly meetings.
Our town board doesn't care about how the residents feel on this issue. Their agenda seems set in stone and you basically aren't allowed to try to challenge it. The ever-lovely Town Supervisor, Frank Petrone will shout you down and have the police take you out of the room for being a disturbance! Then he'll have the code enforcement department visit your home to try to find any violations to fine you for, like a shed or a deck...
He's such a nice guy. And yes, I'm being sarcastic.
Our town board doesn't care about how the residents feel on this issue. Their agenda seems set in stone and you basically aren't allowed to try to challenge it. The ever-lovely Town Supervisor, Frank Petrone will shout you down and have the police take you out of the room for being a disturbance! Then he'll have the code enforcement department visit your home to try to find any violations to fine you for, like a shed or a deck...
He's such a nice guy. And yes, I'm being sarcastic.
Yes, I find it suspect that not a single document for contracts, agendas, meeting minutes, etc. are listed online for the Town of Oyster Bay for the public to review, neither are their meetings available online to watch like the Nassau County Legislature. Also, that meetings are scheduled at pretty inopportune times while most people are at work.
Plainview right now is fighting Country Pointe, a huge complex involving zoning changes--challenges can be made to their decision making--it just involves a large group, time, and significant effort. But, agreed, strong armed tactics are not only inappropriate, they instill a sense of fear. Practice like you mention is not a testament open government--it also points to some pretty significant internal issues.
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