Time to Consolidate Long Island Districts (Islip, Smithtown: insurance, crime, lawyers)

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by nbres

Alright I'll Respond.

1. The fact is is that the financial buden of school property taxes are hurting many Long Islanders. How can you expect retirees, young couples, the working class and now even the middle class to afford to pay our very high property taxes. At some point there might be a tax revolt, mass voting against budgets, or something worse that we have can not forsee - perhaps a deep recession that really pushes many Long Islanders into economic hardship. Then there will be a call to do something. Often when change is forced because of circumstances like economic hardship then we may act rashly without having the time to think it through.

2. A demographic tidal wave of change is coming. It is already transforming Nasau County and will be on its way to Suffolk County next. What most Long Islanders have against consolidation on this board is the fact that they fear the quality of their schools will decrease. This is Long Island speak for "I don't want those black and hispanic kids in the same school with my kids." Don't try to evade it - race is a concern. I understand. However, the fact is that in Nassau County Whites are declining everywhere (also in Suffolk). Whites in Nassau presently make up only 69% of the overall population. The percentage of White school age children is even less, maybe only 60% of all school age kids in Nassau are white, maybe less. There are a little over 60 school districts in Nassau and of those a third or more are already minority majority. Another third have minority enrollments of greater than 25%, and increasing every year. There are only a handful of districts in Nassau that are still 90% White. So the trends are obvious.

3. Well what does it mean for Nasssau. First of all minority demographic strength will eventually be translated into political strength. This means the Democrats who already in power in Nassau will solidify their strength. This political strength will then be used to bring change and one change I think that would be pushed will be school consolidation. My second point relates to what I stated above about what White Long Islanders fear will become moot. This is because the new minorities will not feel the need to exclude others as much as Whites typically do - they will not fear consolidation, but will advocate for it and welcome it.

4. What is happening in Nassau is a foreshawowing of things to come to Suffolk. Today Suffolk is maybe 74% white and the white school age population is probably only 65%. Same trends. In Suffolk we are about a decade behind Nassau.

5. My proposal. Lets start designing a better school system that is equitable and just now. The longer we wait the harder it will be to design a just system. I think those that fear change will be better off in the long run in which a competant system is designed. the alternatives in the future could be far less agreeable.

A new school system should be based on three principles.

A. Justice: Consolidate the many school districts into county wide school districts. Every kid should have access to a quality education and it shouldn't depend on the wealth of that kids parents and where they happen to live.

B. Equity: Fund the system through a progressive Income Tax and eliminate the regressive school property tax.

C. Choice: Allow vouchers so parents can chose alternatives to the county wide public school system. But students would have greater choice within a consolidated school system also. The system should meet the needs of the students.

EXCELLENT POST KUDOS !!

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Glad2BHere

People DO pay the taxes. People DO still buy the homes. Prices still climb up (sure a bit stagnant now but that is everywhere, not just LI and in fact, our market is still hotter than most places). I don't see that equating to more "minorities" being able to afford to buy homes, pay taxes and live here. If whites are struggling, how do you propose that minorities will keep increasing in Nassau and then Suffolk?

People (not just minorities) will be turning single family housing into multiple family units without the benefit of proper permits and appropriate tax. That's already happening (albeit illegally) throughout communities on LI.

[ClarkStreetKid]

Makes sense a there isn't many places left to grow on LI without tearing down some suburban neighborhoods to put up new multi-family housing.

[Glad2BHere]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

People (not just minorities) will be turning single family housing into multiple family units without the benefit of proper permits and appropriate tax. That's already happening (albeit illegally) throughout communities on LI.

Illegal rentals are prevalent in mostly areas with starter homes or lower end of price scale in LI's market. Most people don't have room in their homes to be renting out any portion of it to a renter...so I really do not believe this will become prevalent. I think many would sooner take a second job than have strangers living in their basements (which are usually set up as family rooms or play rooms for their children). And if they still could not afford it, they would likely consider leaving. But if being able to not afford it here on LI became the trend, then that would mean the prices should decline and that just hasn't happened overall in most LI towns.

[ClarkStreetKid]

You'd be surprised how people will live on LI and marvel at their creativity. My wife rented two rooms of someones upstairs, shared the home's single bathroom and was even fed by the lady who owned the place. A friend of mine rented what was someones finished front porch. It had a tiny bathroom with what looked like a camper shower in it and a microwave.
Yet another friend rented a boat docked (run aground?) behind someones house that they ran electricity to and somehow hooked up to the cesspool. At least we think it was hooked to the cesspool.

And of course their were the married kids who still lived with one of the sets of parents either in the basement or upstairs of their home.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Glad2BHere

Illegal rentals are prevalent in mostly areas with starter homes or lower end of price scale in LI's market. Most people don't have room in their homes to be renting out any portion of it to a renter...so I really do not believe this will become prevalent. I think many would sooner take a second job than have strangers living in their basements (which are usually set up as family rooms or play rooms for their children). But that would mean the prices should go way down, if the trend was that things became so unaffordable that new young people would not be able to afford the newly vacant homes. And that just hasn't happened overall in most LI towns.

The comment you had written (to which I had replied) had focused on: " I don't see that equating to more "minorities" being able to afford to buy homes, pay taxes and live here. If whites are struggling, how do you propose that minorities will keep increasing in Nassau and then Suffolk?"

Again, I hold to my belief that if people can't afford it by themselves, they will resort to bringing in more people to live in the home in order to share the expenses. Grandma has her son, his wife & kids move in upstairs, lets her single daughter share downstairs with her and the basement is rented to a tenant. It happens now.

I don't know what town you are in, but if you have access to the Brookhaven Town channel, I suggest you watch it. There are many situations where there are multiple generations in one house, as well as a rental in the same house. Most of the homeowners before the board in these cases are Hispanic. This is an observation based upon viewing the Town channel on various dates.

[Glad2BHere]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

I don't know what town you are in, but if you have access to the Brookhaven Town channel, I suggest you watch it. There are many situations where there are multiple generations in one house, as well as a rental in the same house. Most of the homeowners before the board in these cases are Hispanic. This is an observation based upon viewing the Town channel on various dates.

I don't have access to that. Doesn't surprise me with certain cultures, that is more acceptable way to live. Many other cultures/nationalities really would not live like this, they would not be satisfied with that type of lifestyle. And that is why this is prevalent in some towns over others, where homes start out on the more affordable end of the scale.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Glad2BHere

Illegal rentals are prevalent in mostly areas with starter homes or lower end of price scale in LI's market. Most people don't have room in their homes to be renting out any portion of it to a renter...so I really do not believe this will become prevalent. I think many would sooner take a second job than have strangers living in their basements (which are usually set up as family rooms or play rooms for their children). And if they still could not afford it, they would likely consider leaving. But if being able to not afford it here on LI became the trend, then that would mean the prices should decline and that just hasn't happened overall in most LI towns.

Hate to break it to you , but MOST FAMILIES IN STARTED HOMES, have BOTH peopel working and the hubby or wife working a second job AND STILL HAVE TO RENT OUT PART OF THEIR HOUSE to get by.
It's the truth.. most people I know and speak to would leave LI if it didn't mean leaving their family behind, thereby takng their children away from their grandparents.

[ClarkStreetKid]

Heck, take granny with ya!

[nbres]

You also said there are "Spanish" people moving to Smithtown, which could not be the furthest thing from the truth.

Glad2BHere

I know of two Puerto Rican and two Dominican families personally who have moved into Smithtown. That may not seem like much, but that is just the people I know personally. How many others don't I know who are moving to Smithtown. You may not see it now, but in the future their numbers will increase. Smithtown and a handful of other places are the last bastions of the old 90%+ Long Island of yesteryear. Change is on its way and there is nothing that you can do about it. Just listen to almost anyone on Long Island from any town and they will tell you that the demographics are changing. Yes, in some places more than others, but can you name me one place on Long Island that is becoming more White?

If whites are struggling, how do you propose that minorities will keep increasing in Nassau and then Suffolk?Glad2BHere

Don't you realize that the entire country is becoming less white every year. By as early as 2035 whites might be less than half the population. The numbers of "minorities" is exploding. Long Island is next to New york City which is 70% non-white now. Do you think all those people are just always going to stay there? Hispanics, Asians, African-Americans are getting good jobs now in the city and they are moving to the Island. They will inevitably change the political dynamics of Long Island and they will be a force for change in bringing about a more equitable education system on Long Island. They will not be playing the system to keep there district an exclusive racial domain and thus will be more open to the idea of school consolidation.

BTW I don't think I ever used the term "Spanish" people. To me Spanish people are Spaniards from Spain. Spaniards are European Whites. Hispanics is a catch all cultural term that may include Spaniards, but also includes all Spanish speaking peoples from Latin America. But Hispanics in this country is commonly accepted as a term to really describe meztiso people. Mestizo people are actually, to varying degrees, Amerindian.