Time to Consolidate Long Island Districts (New York, Babylon: upper-class, purchasing, bankrupt)

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by nbres

Not on my tax dollar. If your district gets any state or federal funding than I should have the right to also send my kids to your "exclusive" district since I pay state and federal taxes.

If you want an "exclusive" educational setting then send your kids to private school and I have no complaints, but to pretend that somehow barring kids from a public school education is fair based on your logic is totally wrong.

Every child should have equal access to a quality education and if they are not getting it in their district then they should be allowed to attend another school in another district. With consolidation students and parents would have greater choice. It is not the fault of the children if their parents are poor and can not afford to live in your "exclusive" school district. They, poor kids, too deserve a quality education provided by a public education system funded with all of our tax dollars.

Well said !!!

[watamensch]

A consolidation would not be easy, and would not be cheap. I would want some proof... maybe an area where this was done and
(1) eduction improved (MORE IMPORTANT THEN SAVING MONEY)
(2) cost savings were realized across the board, in all areas

I would not jump at trying this. It is possible that consolidation would cause more problems that it would solve.

How much would we save? Does anyone know? Is it worth a $500/yr reduction in property taxes if your kid has to commute for an hour each way to school? People drive like maniacs, and the more time on the bus, the better the odds for accidents. This is a STRONG reason, along with energy conservation for keeping kids close to home.

Before trying this, I would challenge parents to put down their remotes and know as many details about their kids as they know about the finalists on American Idol.

Pay attention to what their kids are doing in and out of school... go to school board meetings and become part of their children's lives. This goes for school and social life. Better education, less drug use, less teen pregnancy etc....

Consolidation of schools with detached parents will have no net result without the involvement of parents - and again. I ASK AGAIN... SHOW ME POSITIVE RESULTS FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE before chasing this fantasy.

[nbres]

A consolidation would not be easy, and would not be cheap. I would want some proof... maybe an area where this was done and
(1) eduction improved (MORE IMPORTANT THEN SAVING MONEY)
(2) cost savings were realized across the board, in all areas
watamensch
Member

Well to adress your question I say just look at all the countywide school district systems that already exist all over the United States. ClarkStreetKid who has posted on this thread is a former Long Islander living in Virginia. His kids go to Henrico County Schools where they are getting a fine education at a lower tax cost than what we are experiencing here.

I ASK AGAIN... SHOW ME POSITIVE RESULTS FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE before chasing this fantasy.

I'll grant that not every countywide system is good in the south or elsewhere, but there are many that are as good or better than what we have here on Long Island. Most Long Islanders tend to think that we have the only schools in the country that produce well educated students, which is nonesense. Well educated students come from school districts all over the country - and many are products of consolidated countywide school systems.

Consolidation of schools with detached parents will have no net result without the involvement of parents

There will always be parents that are detached. Nothing can be done about that, but it is till not the fault of the child if their parents are detached. BTW I know you are implying that detached parents are more commonly associated with poor and/or minority groups, but there are many detached wealthy parents as well. Why do you think wealthy kids get into so much trouble with drugs, pregnancy, etc...The difference is that wealthy parents can bail there kids out of trouble.

[nbres]

And just to add.. sometimes the best schools inflate their numbers just to keep their property values from declining.
It's all a mess .. the whole system really.
TristansMommy

How very true.

Many so called "better" schools inflate grades to such an extent that the grades become worthless. Regents exams are scored by teachers who are under pressure to show that their students are passing. These teachers are often forced to find ways to pass as many kids as possible. No one dare fail a kid in Roslyn, Great Neck, etc...

This is why colleges want to see the SAT scores and how many AP courses a student passed. Both tests are scored by the College Board. They know that most schools on Long Island are inflating their grades. The schools here do this because they have to reassure the people who bought their $800,000 home in the district that their little one is getting a "superior" education.

Just be aware that there is a lot of smoke-and-mirrors going on.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by nbres

How very true.

Many so called "better" schools inflate grades to such an extent that the grades become worthless. Regents exams are scored by teachers who are under pressure to show that their students are passing. These teachers are often forced to find ways to pass as many kids as possible. No one dare fail a kid in Roslyn, Great Neck, etc...

This is why colleges want to see the SAT scores and how many AP courses a student passed. Both tests are scored by the College Board. They know that most schools on Long Island are inflating their grades. The schools here do this because they have to reassure the people who bought their $800,000 home in the district that their little one is getting a "superior" education.

Just be aware that there is a lot of smoke-and-mirrors going on.

Do you have proof of your "better schools" grade inflation theory? Or is this just speculation, rumor, or something that "everyone knows"? And don't bother citing the recent incident in the Uniondale district -- totally different story.

[Glad2BHere]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

Do you have proof of your "better schools" grade inflation theory? Or is this just speculation, rumor, or something that "everyone knows"?

I doubt Nbres has any proof. Just is a good arguement to use.

[watamensch]

Originally Posted by nbres

BTW I know you are implying that detached parents are more commonly associated with poor and/or minority groups, but there are many detached wealthy parents as well. Why do you think wealthy kids get into so much trouble with drugs, pregnancy, etc...The difference is that wealthy parents can bail there kids out of trouble.

I did not mean to imply that there's a connection between income and parental participation... you are right that wealthy parents can be detached as well.

My questions were:

- Is this worth it? Is the savings $100, $1000 or more?

- Kids are disturbed when they change schools, and breaking up established schools may harm kids more then it helps.

- Depending on where you live, the savings in property taxes can be more then offset by the loss in property value if you take a "good" district and mix it with one that is a poor performer. Like it or not, that's how it works.

[watamensch]

The bottom line with me is... HELPING THE KIDS GET A BETTER EDUCATION is first, saving money is an added bonus.

If it saves money and education suffers then leave things where they are.

[PizzaPedro]

I don't get this passive-aggressive stance that nbres and T-mom take. They say that kids in other school districts should have access to the better school districts, but then they say that they other school districts aren't that good anyway. That the scores are inflated or whatnot. So why do you want to go?

Well, the kids can rub off on the other kids. But the kids are all rich snobs who don't appreciate anything in life, so why do you want it to rub off?

This is just a terrible idea. It will not work, it will not save money and overall it will have a negative impact on more kids than it would have a positive impact. The change has to come from within and in particular at home.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by PizzaPedro

I don't get this passive-aggressive stance that nbres and T-mom take. They say that kids in other school districts should have access to the better school districts, but then they say that they other school districts aren't that good anyway. That the scores are inflated or whatnot. So why do you want to go?
Yes.. certain schools are better than others.. can't argue that.. but it's not all that it's taxed up to be.. if you know what I mean! THAT is my point.

Well, the kids can rub off on the other kids. But the kids are all rich snobs who don't appreciate anything in life, so why do you want it to rub off? while I still say a lot of them .. NOT ALL... do not appreciate things.. this doesnt' mean that their attitude toward getting a good education and their good study habits will not rub off. A poor kid will never learn to be a snob.. they have nothing to be snobby about.. And again.. I didn't say all kids of wealthy parents are snobs.. BUT from my observence they have no clue or appreciation. Heck.. I wasn't even rich.. I was middle class.. and I never realized just how much of himself my dad sacraficed to give us what we had till I was in my early 20's and started commuting with him to NYC on the Babylon line! But, then again.. I had to go to work when I was in H.S etc.... so I knew what it meant to earn a dollar to pay for the things I wanted rather than be able to turn to mommy and daddy and ask and recieve. I'm grateful for that.. so much more than I wuold have been grateful for the stupid item I wanted.

This is just a terrible idea. It will not work, it will not save money and overall it will have a negative impact on more kids than it would have a positive impact. The change has to come from within and in particular at home.

It's worked and has been working in so many other parts of the country.. and it would be working here today if we had started out with such a system. Your right.. with an attitude like yours it will not work... after all negative attracts negative.. you don't want it ot owrk.. so it never will.