Time to Consolidate Long Island Districts (Roosevelt, Florida: 2010, rental, health insurance)

[VTP]

PizzaPedro,

Thank you for settling this. I throw my hands up in despair too. There is no point in arguing with people who make circuitous, unsupported and (frankly) ridiculous arguments. I thought the point of these boards was to engage in some useful exchange of information. Vigorous debate is fine (and entertaining) but this has just devolved into a silly waste of time. I chalk it up to nbres and TristansMommy having huge chips on their shoulders because they can't afford to live where they really want to live. Of course, I'd be frustrated too in their situation but why take it out on someone else just because that someone is fortunate enough to live in a better place, whether they arrived there by virtue of hard work or family money....Go have a catfight with someone else. I'm looking forward to driving my nice car home to my nice house in my exclusive neighborhood. See 'ya.

[pdcnret]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

It's worked and has been working in so many other parts of the country.. and it would be working here today if we had started out with such a system. Your right.. with an attitude like yours it will not work... after all negative attracts negative.. you don't want it ot owrk.. so it never will.

Actually, it's worked in other parts of the country because that's the only system they've ever had. I'm sure that many parents will tell you horror stories about their experiences with the bureaucratic and unresponsive giant school systems across the country (see the Wake County, North Carolina comments.) The reason that we have what we have to date is that we want local control of our schools (and other parts of our government services.) New York is a home-rule state, which means that it's all about local government -- a throwback to colonial days, and that's not about to change anytime soon. The real issue here is about the cost of our schools and how we finance that cost. There are other things that can be tried first to rein in costs (like capping tax increase rates, like taking stronger bargaining positions with the unions, like consolidating certain administrative functions (purchasing, contracting, etc.)), but they will take political will to accomplish. Most people are pretty happy with having local schools and local control -- it's the cost they want to do something about.

As I've said before, hold onto your posts and pull them out in about ten years when you've had some experience with the school systems and your kids under your belt. I'll guarantee you'll have a different outlook on this subject.

[watamensch]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

It's worked and has been working in so many other parts of the country.. and it would be working here today if we had started out with such a system. Your right.. with an attitude like yours it will not work... after all negative attracts negative.. you don't want it ot owrk.. so it never will.

TM... there's a difference between starting with a system that's large and centralized and converting a system like ours with lots of school systems into one. Reshuffling the current system would be costly and would cause chaos.

Like it or not we don't have centralized schools. Anyone who wants centralized schools can move his/her family to an area with a big centralized school system. I want mine where it is. Frankly, that's part of what I bought when I decided to buy my home and I don't want the change.

With all the back and forth, I have yet to see a situation where a de-centralized system was merged EVER. If you can find one, show me the benefit to ALL the kids (not just the ones in the lesser-performing schools) and the cost savings and maybe we can talk.

Someone raised the example of a good centralized district in Virginia, I counter with the NYC school system. Do you want to risk that schools could be worse? Once you centralize, if it turns out to be a mistake you can't undo what you've done.

If we could start again, in theory, you might be right that a centralized system might be better. This is reality, not theory.

[ClarkStreetKid]

Just a few points...

Consolidated districts doesn't mean forced busing. It may mean the county will try to redistribute kids from a crowded school to another local school that is underutilized in order to save costs. (My kids have moved 2 and 3 times while in elementary school with all school being 1 mile or less from our house. The underutilized school was brand new).

Consolidated doesn't mean good schools go bad or that the schools somehow even out. I live in an affluent area of the county and our schools are better than the lower income areas, and we bought in this area because even within the county this area's schools are better.

I'm not sure a county wide consolidation would work on Long Island because of it's large population and how town centric it is.

BTW - Here's a page that gives a breakdown of ethnic distribution, budget, per pupil expenditure, number of students, etc... Dig up the numbers for LI and see how they compare.

One of our biggest challenges in this county has been the population boom we've experienced. When I moved down here this area was nothing but woods, farms and the main drag had one blinking stop light.

Facts About Henrico County Public Schools :: Just the Facts
Henrico County Public Schools :: Job Opportunities :: Salary Scale

Syosset School District
Syosset School District

North Babylon
North Babylon School District

Wyandanch
Wyandanch School District

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by VTP

PizzaPedro,

Thank you for settling this. I throw my hands up in despair too. There is no point in arguing with people who make circuitous, unsupported and (frankly) ridiculous arguments. I thought the point of these boards was to engage in some useful exchange of information. Vigorous debate is fine (and entertaining) but this has just devolved into a silly waste of time. I chalk it up to nbres and TristansMommy having huge chips on their shoulders because they can't afford to live where they really want to live. Of course, I'd be frustrated too in their situation but why take it out on someone else just because that someone is fortunate enough to live in a better place, whether they arrived there by virtue of hard work or family money....Go have a catfight with someone else. I'm looking forward to driving my nice car home to my nice house in my exclusive neighborhood. See 'ya.

First I live in Levittown and have no desire to live anywhere else on LI..as a matter of fact.. I'm planning my EXIT from this money pit ..

and.. there's no sense in arguing with snobs who seem think spending more makes everything better.

[AgingHippie]

I've been lurking on this forum for months and now feel the need to say something as a result of this thread.

In my lifetime I've been poor and I've been rich and I've been middle-income (several times). Right now I'm retired with an income of $50,000 before taxes and no debt. That makes me middle-income (at least on Long Island).

My kids are out of college so personally I don't care what my school district is like anymore. I do care what my taxes are though, and they are very very high; I don't like that (duh). My town is also very very white; I do like that. Yes I could move to another town where the taxes are lower but I like the upper-middle to upper-class town in which I live. I'm not willing to sacrifice that for the sake of a small decrease in my taxes. If the school districts were consolidated how much would my taxes go down? $1000? That's barely 5% of my current total. They go up almost that much EVERY YEAR! Now if consolidation were to reduce my taxes by 25% ($4000) then I would sit up and take notice. But we all know that's not going to happen.

People might get a what, maybe 10% reduction in their current school taxes? That's nothing more than a temporary psychological band-aid, like the economic stimulus package that our politicians are debating. $500 or $600 is one heating oil tank fillup nowadays and then it's gone and back to business as usual. What a joke.

I also resent the attitude that people who prefer to live in more socioeconomically exclusive towns, or who don't mind spending money for things that are important to them, are somehow morally bankrupt. And that there's some kind of "badge of honor" attached to living in a less exclusive area, or struggling to make ends meet. Same old story, the Haves versus the Have-Nots.

I agree with the views of Pizza Pedro and VTP and Glad2BeHere and I don't feel guilty for choosing to live in a demographically exclusive area.

[watamensch]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

First I live in Levittown and have no desire to live anywhere else on LI..as a matter of fact.. I'm planning my EXIT from this money pit ..

and.. there's no sense in arguing with snobs who seem think spending more makes everything better.

TM... what's stopping you from making the move? Judging from this thread and others where you contribute your are obviously VERY unhappy here on Long Island - I am not trying to show you the door, just wondering what is keeping you in this "living hell."

[Glad2BHere]

Originally Posted by AgingHippie

I've been lurking on this forum for months and now feel the need to say something as a result of this thread.

I also resent the attitude that people who prefer to live in more socioeconomically exclusive towns, or who don't mind spending money for things that are important to them, are somehow morally bankrupt. And that there's some kind of "badge of honor" attached to living in a less exclusive area, or struggling to make ends meet. Same old story, the Haves versus the Have-Nots.

I agree with the views of Pizza Pedro and VTP and Glad2BeHere and I don't feel guilty for choosing to live in a demographically exclusive area.

Thank you for joining us and thank you for your post.

And as you already know, I agree.

[PizzaPedro]

I think some people are overestimating how much money would be saved with this plan anyway. Yes, there would be some economies of scale, but at lot of that is already in place through bidding and group purchasing.

The two biggest expenses in any school district: teachers salaries and teachers benefits. That's why a comparison to other parts of the country isn't valid. Teachers in other parts of the county don't make $100,000 and they don't have school districts buy them out when they are 50 years old and give them the kind of packages that teachers around here get.

If you want to control your taxes as relates to the school district, teacher salaries have to be controlled. Now, my wife is a teacher so I'm a beneficiary of this. But the fact is that once upon a time, teachers got great benefits to compensate for low salaries. Not the case so much anymore. Teachers on Long Island now (after a few years) get 21st century salaries with 1950s benefits. That's a huge problem. I'm not opposed to good teachers making $100,000. That's fine. But we also shouldn't have to pay them half salary and full benefits for the rest of their life when they retire.

Enter the real world. Make a nice salary, but it should be a 401K plan like the rest of the world. Teachers already work less hours and have every holiday and summers off. Making 21st century salaries with 1950s benefits on top of it seems a bit much.

Don't get me wrong, I think teachers provide a great and important service. But I also believe in the free market and supply and demand. The supply of teachers on Long Island far exceeds the demand. But salaries keep going up. And if you could tell me the teachers that make the most money are the "best", I'd be OK with it. But that's not the case. In my school district they just cut one math teachers spot from the HS. The teacher that was let go was far more involved with her students and had far better results (as measured by Regents scores) than her counterpart who was retained. But the inferior teacher had been there longer. So let's pay MORE money for a WORSE teacher. That's your Long island tax dollar at work in a nutshell.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by AgingHippie

I've been lurking on this forum for months and now feel the need to say something as a result of this thread.

In my lifetime I've been poor and I've been rich and I've been middle-income (several times). Right now I'm retired with an income of $50,000 before taxes and no debt. That makes me middle-income (at least on Long Island).

My kids are out of college so personally I don't care what my school district is like anymore. I do care what my taxes are though, and they are very very high; I don't like that (duh). My town is also very very white; I do like that. Yes I could move to another town where the taxes are lower but I like the upper-middle to upper-class town in which I live. I'm not willing to sacrifice that for the sake of a small decrease in my taxes. If the school districts were consolidated how much would my taxes go down? $1000? That's barely 5% of my current total. They go up almost that much EVERY YEAR! Now if consolidation were to reduce my taxes by 25% ($4000) then I would sit up and take notice. But we all know that's not going to happen.

People might get a what, maybe 10% reduction in their current school taxes? That's nothing more than a temporary psychological band-aid, like the economic stimulus package that our politicians are debating. $500 or $600 is one heating oil tank fillup nowadays and then it's gone and back to business as usual. What a joke.

I also resent the attitude that people who prefer to live in more socioeconomically exclusive towns, or who don't mind spending money for things that are important to them, are somehow morally bankrupt. And that there's some kind of "badge of honor" attached to living in a less exclusive area, or struggling to make ends meet. Same old story, the Haves versus the Have-Nots.

I agree with the views of Pizza Pedro and VTP and Glad2BeHere and I don't feel guilty for choosing to live in a demographically exclusive area.

I agree with much of what you've written concerning what the true dollar benefit would or wouldn't be when consolidation is taken into account. We still would have one very big ticket item: teachers salaries & benefits, which could not be reduced through consolidation. Maintenance of infrastructure, utilities and custodial positions would also be difficult, if not impossible to reduce, either.

My area is considered above average economically and 'diverse' by LI standards (I believe 76% white.) We pay more than our fair share of taxes and get back less from the state. We don't have a signifcant commercial tax base as the area developed more rapidly than commercial development did -- hence more houses -- and we have a HUGE State University right in the middle of the district which contributes NOTHING financially to the district. Yet our district is obligated to educate children who live with their parents on campus. We did manage fight for a PILOT payment when the Gyrodyne property was seized by the SUNY through eminent domain. Both my district and Smithtown stood to lose more commercial tax dollars if the land went off the tax roles. (It is my understanding that this PILOT payment was precedent setting.)

Would I move elsewhere to pay less in taxes? No. Does that make me snobbish or an elitist? No. I am happy where I live, raising my children in the community in which my husband was raised. My neck of the woods is in no way exclusive; there is housing stock starting in the 300Ks and working it's way up to the multi-millions.

Yes, some people have money and are snots. Yes, some people don't have it and walk around with chips on their shoulders. We make our own destiny. We make our own choices. And I am not about to have people who feel things are unfair (general population, not finger pointing)foist their choices upon me.

I have to stand along with what Pizza, VTP, Glad2 & you, AgingHippie have expressed.