Time to Consolidate Long Island Districts (Babylon, Yonkers: property taxes, gated, budget)

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by pdcnret

Don't automatically assume that your children will still attend neighborhood schools in a consolidation. Take a look at the North Carolina board where they bitterly complain that kids in Wake County are bused all over the county to deal with overcrowding situations. Other districts, such as in the Tampa, Florida area, will bus kids to achieve racial balance. There are no guarantees that kids will attend their local schools unless the consolidation is structured to do so. There are probably as many variables as there are consolidated districts.

Long Island is not the same situation as Norht Carolina. For one, we wouldn't have an "overcrowding" problem becasue there aren't many new developements going up here. If you read further down you'll see the problem with distributing students in NC is happening because building has been taking place at such a fast pace that he school district in the areas being built can not handle the influx of new students.

As a matter of fact BECAUSE Li is already pretty much fully developed, there won't be a need to start shuttling students outside their school zone.. with the acception of some smaller districts that may not be filled to capacity or operating efficiently.. and that would be a smaller percentage as compared to what has happend in NC.

Again.. consolidation is only 1 example of what needs to take place to fix the problem. We basically overpay for our schools here and it's ridiculous. I don't see it changing anytime soon and so I am electing tomove someplace else that doesn't have the same cost of livng issues LI does. It will be awhile before I can leave, but in the meantime I'm determine to research nd find the place that's "perfect" for me and my family.
Maybe , someday, if people get over their fears of change on LI and things do get better, I'd come back.. but right now it's a total battle swimming against the tide.

[fopt65]

Originally Posted by ClarkStreetKid

You were the one that said a child could excel there, and I know that's very unlikely to happen. But you are right that people could volunteer their time and money so that's not a bad start for those who are more affluent and educated to help out.

A truly dedicated child could excel anywhere. I'm curious about why people think these schools require mass integration of other from other districts in order to succeed. When you look at per student spending, Hempstead and Roosevelt are solidly in the middle part of the pack, and spend more money than many other better performing districts. So, then what is the cause of the failure academically that can be remedied by the school? How does integration of another race improve things? Isn't is racist thinking that in order for minorities to have a good school there must be integration of whites?

Can a school change the poverty rate? Can it restore divided households?

Many areas do succeed quite well in a county wide school syste which was set up that way from the beginning. If that is what you want, then you should relocate to an area that has it.
Long Island's housing market is based on people leaving NYC to get to the suburbs. Most of that occurs as their children become school aged, and they don't want their kid going to a NYC school. They want localized school CONTROL, not just location. They don't want a politically connected "suit" being chancellor.
Changing LI's school system to a NYC style will lead to a further softening of the real estate market.

[fopt65]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Long Island is not the same situation as Norht Carolina. For one, we wouldn't have an "overcrowding" problem becasue there aren't many new developements going up here. If you read further down you'll see the problem with distributing students in NC is happening because building has been taking place at such a fast pace that he school district in the areas being built can not handle the influx of new students.

As a matter of fact BECAUSE Li is already pretty much fully developed, there won't be a need to start shuttling students outside their school zone.. with the acception of some smaller districts that may not be filled to capacity or operating efficiently.. and that would be a smaller percentage as compared to what has happend in NC.

Again.. consolidation is only 1 example of what needs to take place to fix the problem. We basically overpay for our schools here and it's ridiculous. I don't see it changing anytime soon and so I am electing tomove someplace else that doesn't have the same cost of livng issues LI does. It will be awhile before I can leave, but in the meantime I'm determine to research nd find the place that's "perfect" for me and my family.
Maybe , someday, if people get over their fears of change on LI and things do get better, I'd come back.. but right now it's a total battle swimming against the tide.

Many county wide school districts shuttle students because they want racial equality in all schools within the district. I stopped looking in Manatee County Florida due to this. They were shuttling kids past 3 schools to get to school the district wanted them in.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by fopt65

Many county wide school districts shuttle students because they want racial equality in all schools within the district. I stopped looking in Manatee County Florida due to this. They were shuttling kids past 3 schools to get to school the district wanted them in.

They may be under federal court order to de-segregate their schools. The Denver Public Schools did the above for many years, under court "supervision". They were finally released recently from that program.

[ClarkStreetKid]

Originally Posted by fopt65

A truly dedicated child could excel anywhere. I'm curious about why people think these schools require mass integration of other from other districts in order to succeed. When you look at per student spending, Hempstead and Roosevelt are solidly in the middle part of the pack, and spend more money than many other better performing districts. So, then what is the cause of the failure academically that can be remedied by the school? How does integration of another race improve things? Isn't is racist thinking that in order for minorities to have a good school there must be integration of whites?

Nope, and I'm not for forced bussing. But we essentially have voluntary integration by students who meet the academic requirements going to these magnet schools.

Originally Posted by fopt65

Can a school change the poverty rate? Can it restore divided households?

Nope, but a school can provide a good education.

Originally Posted by fopt65

Many areas do succeed quite well in a county wide school syste which was set up that way from the beginning. If that is what you want, then you should relocate to an area that has it.
Long Island's housing market is based on people leaving NYC to get to the suburbs. Most of that occurs as their children become school aged, and they don't want their kid going to a NYC school. They want localized school CONTROL, not just location. They don't want a politically connected "suit" being chancellor.
Changing LI's school system to a NYC style will lead to a further softening of the real estate market.

And what happens when a dominant group takes over control of the district and imposes changes that benefit only their own kids?

I also don't see what the problem is with a softening of the real estate market on LI as it's part of the reason teachers give for needing high salaries is housing and cost of living.

You guys do what you want as it seems to work, I'm just giving the views of someone whose kids are in one of the alternatives.

[TristansMommy]

AGain.. a lot of the post by Fopt65 is an example of why LI will never change.. FEAR.. fear of their schools becoming "inferior" if the system is changed...

Yet..that FEAR is what the SD's hold over parents heads allthe time to get them to approve their overinflated budgets that keep raising our taxes.

LI'rs seem to think that only LI has it right and the rest of the country has it wrong.. meanwhile they are shelling out 3x's the national average in taxes.. thinking that paying more for somethimg means that it's better.

It simply is NOT better.

As for desegregating the schools.. people arent shuttled into what neighborhoods they live in.. they choose them based on several criteria. Switching to a countywide school district will NOT mean that children will be shuttled to "even out the population" of the school. People will buy in the neighborhoods they want to live in and will go to the schools that are designated for that neighborhood. AND that should be spelled out if they ever do do a consolidation.

I , for one, do not feel that it would be so terrible if they did even out the playing field anyway... thent here would be no "bad districts" and all children would have the same opportunities across the board.. and they would be great opportunities. Does not a student at Roosevelt SD deserve the same chances to succeed as someone in a Roslyn SD. AFter all.. a child is innoccent and doesn't have a choice of how much money they have or don't have.. BUT.. given the opportunity to learn along side someone with other advantages may turn what could become a drug dealer or criminal into someone that will do something great with their life with a great education.

And that wouldn't mean that your child would suddenly be going to school in the ghetto.. by no means!
I don't have a child that is of school age yet.. he's only 2. .. but someday he will. Of course I dont want him in a poor perfomring school.. but I certainly do not mind a culturally and economically diverse school district. Rich, poor or middle class, my child will know that money does not and should not make him better or define who he is. but how he performs in school is all about the attitude he has and I have toward helping him make a life for himself. Plus, it builds character and some of the more spoiled kids on LI could learn some very valuable and much needed lessons about appreciating what they have by learning alongside other students whose parents aren't buying their kids brand new Beamers to drive to school in.

And.. I dont know if you all know this.. but there is section 8 Housing in Roslyn just NOrth of the LIE near the train station. Those students go to Roslyn. So , does hte few section 8 housing "poorer" students bring down the SD numbers.. ABSOLUTELY not.. it gives THOSE students a much greater chance at succeeding. So.. if a few students from poor performing schools are then mixed into better performing schools it will not have the affect that some ofy ou "fear".

Instead.. come the next budget vote..once again the sheeple will vote "yes" out of fear.. fear that something will be taken away or that suddenly your child won't get the education or grades.. Then.. watch your tax bill climb and climb.. LI'rs complain.. but WON'T do what is neccesary to change it.

[ClarkStreetKid]

Considering that LI is a pretty well defined area I'd think there would be more cooperation between districts as you're all in the same big boat. What do you do about poorer school districts, build a wall around them and expect something good to happen?

Same ol' same ol' that's been going on for decades.

[Glad2BHere]

Originally Posted by fopt65

Let me tell you about consolidation from my experience on LI. I live in Franklin Square so our high school is part of Sewanhaka's Central District which is compised of 5 high schools. Each HS has administators which then report to the central district. We don't save a dime! We are more top heavy in administration than the stand alone high schools in the area. Plus we get the "benefit" of being the HS that provides ESL classes, although all of those kids come from Elmont. So now, school busses are run throughout the day at $3.60 a gallon to transport these kids. The other HS run different programs in which again the kids are driven throughout the neighborhoods.

My taxes to this disctrict are higher than my taxes to my elementary school system and since our voting power is now diluted among 5 neighborhoods, we have lost local control of our high school. I would vote to get out of this central district tomorrow if we could.

Consolidation is not the cup of tea you think it is. If people want consolidation, move to NYC. Deal with the Board of Ed and see how that is.

Also, if people on this forum are so truly interested in helping out those districts they deem as being in need, volunteer your time there. Be a reading tutor, or write a check to the district. I'm sure they'd appreciate it. Or better yet, move to that district and enroll your children in that school. Buy a foreclosure in that neighborhood. Your tax money will then be given to that district to help educate the children.

Amazing post. You get rep points from me on this one!!

I agree, move to NYC and deal with the Dept of Ed if you want to experience this. I know the Dept of Ed from a staff member's point of view and it is NOT a pretty one.

And it is a shame that the high schools in Franklin Sq and Floral Park have to share due to the consolidation with Elmont. Long time residents know first hand that the schools have not changed for the better.

[Glad2BHere]

Originally Posted by fopt65

So, then what is the cause of the failure academically that can be remedied by the school? How does integration of another race improve things? Isn't is racist thinking that in order for minorities to have a good school there must be integration of whites?

Can a school change the poverty rate? Can it restore divided households?

Many areas do succeed quite well in a county wide school syste which was set up that way from the beginning. If that is what you want, then you should relocate to an area that has it.
Long Island's housing market is based on people leaving NYC to get to the suburbs. Most of that occurs as their children become school aged, and they don't want their kid going to a NYC school. They want localized school CONTROL, not just location. They don't want a politically connected "suit" being chancellor.
Changing LI's school system to a NYC style will lead to a further softening of the real estate market.

You hit the nail on the head. Wish I could give you points on this one too!

[watamensch]

Before this is done, does anyone have a study of another group of small districts that were combined into one or two large districts? How did it change education and expenses? Did taxes go down or stay the same?

Theories are great, but does it work in real life?

It can't all be good. What are the negatives of a proposal like this?

Is it possible that we can take the districts and cut them down to 10 instead of 2 or 3?

I am no expert, so what do the experts think?