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Old 06-13-2018, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,685 posts, read 27,882,078 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sithlord72 View Post
You all have these proposals for a tunnel,or bridge across LI sound, but where are you getting the money ? Plus all the libs in LI would cry about the pollution of the sound ( they have a point), plus once Andy Cuomo gets embarrassed on the national stage when he starts his pipe dream of becoming President, he will be obsolete and his ideas will be put back on the back burner, just like this idea was squashed in the 70s
I am not a 'lib' and I, too, am very concerned about pollution in the Sound as well as the potential to compromise our drinking water aquifer.
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Old 06-13-2018, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
7,170 posts, read 8,756,510 times
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Cuomo may support the concept now but who's to say he will remain in office long enough to take on this financial albatross for the state.
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Old 06-13-2018, 11:16 AM
 
155 posts, read 224,071 times
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How will a bridge over the sound compromise our drinking water aquifer ?
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:21 PM
 
1,053 posts, read 719,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
Perhaps a quicker form of ferries such as those used in Europe would make the sound crossings more palatable.
It couldn't be fast enough.

LIE at Nassau/Suffolk border to I95/287 via car:
About 50 min normal, 90min+ rush hour.

LIE at Nassau/Suffolk border to I95/287 via ferry:
30-40 minutes normal, 50 minutes+ during rush hour (of course, actual time will vary depending on start point. However, getting to Port Jeff or any North Shore coastal point is never easy).

Plus, you need to get there at least 30 minutes prior to your reservation. (This also means leaving even earlier to account for traffic on the way - you are locked into a reservation time.)
Then add the time for the trip.
Then add time to load and unload.

Not counting that the ferry goes to Bridgeport, which limits its usefulness to points North/East and New England. Anyone commuting to Stamford/Greenwich/Port Chester or those trying to access the rest of NYS or points west/south still have a long drive south on 95.

Even if you live a block away from the departure point and you cut the sailing time down to 30 minutes, it is still longer than driving when you add the extra time for arriving early.

The ferry only makes sense for those living east of the ferry departure point. The further west you set the ferry terminal, the more potential riders you have, but you also cut down on any potential time benefit the ferry can provide. Pt Jeff is a sweet spot as it is west enough to have a good pool of potential passengers, yet east enough to provide a service that can compete on time.

A SOB to 287 connection makes sense for cars/trucks because it would significantly cut down on travel time between these two major roadways. SOB is the only N/S expressway on LI and centrally location (from a population density perspective). I-287 provides a viable link to 95, New England, Upstate NY, PA, and points west. For some, it may even be a more sensible driving route for points south. It would really open things up for getting on/off Long Island by avoiding the bottlenecks we currently have.
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Old 06-13-2018, 12:27 PM
 
1,053 posts, read 719,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geo123 View Post
How will a bridge over the sound compromise our drinking water aquifer ?
The current thinking is for a tunnel. The digging is what some believe may affect the aquifer system.

Environmental issues are definitely a concern with a project like this. While an impact study would have to be conducted, they always seem to say what people want them to say.

There is also a wildlife refuge on/near the path of the proposed tunnel. Ironically, this refuge was specifically created to stop one of the older bridge/tunnel proposals. That was back in the days when the north shore nimbys had enough clout to re-route parkways (that's why the Northern State Pkwy was forced to go around Old Westbury).
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Old 06-13-2018, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Where my bills arrive
7,170 posts, read 8,756,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe461 View Post
Not counting that the ferry goes to Bridgeport, which limits its usefulness to points North/East and New England. Anyone commuting to Stamford/Greenwich/Port Chester or those trying to access the rest of NYS or points west/south still have a long drive south on 95.
My reference to faster ferries was for the Hydrofoils and Hovercraft used in Europe. But if you work in Stamford/Greenwich/Port Chester is choosing to live on LI really the best choice? Yes you have the right to live where you want but even down here you think long and hard about adding the bridge/tunnel crossing into your daily commute rather than living on the side that you work. Off island travel will always be a chore which is why industry doesn't want to locate there.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:05 PM
 
Location: In the basket
9,583 posts, read 11,162,807 times
Reputation: 5824
Not happening. It's just not.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:06 PM
 
Location: In the heights
20,109 posts, read 21,722,272 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8 View Post
^ I was referring to a rail tunnel.
Sorry, I misread!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe461 View Post
The current thinking is for a tunnel. The digging is what some believe may affect the aquifer system.

Environmental issues are definitely a concern with a project like this. While an impact study would have to be conducted, they always seem to say what people want them to say.

There is also a wildlife refuge on/near the path of the proposed tunnel. Ironically, this refuge was specifically created to stop one of the older bridge/tunnel proposals. That was back in the days when the north shore nimbys had enough clout to re-route parkways (that's why the Northern State Pkwy was forced to go around Old Westbury).
Yes, there’ll definitely have to be one conducted and the ending point on both sides for car traffic will almost certainly necessitate building out the streets to allow for the large amount of traffic that will be coming.

It’s still another reason that if this were to be built, and I believe there are a good half dozen or so fairly large projects that are more important than this one even in just looking at the benefits to Long Island.

Were this to be built though, the most rational choice is still a rail tunnel. Aside from aforementioned issues about the ventilation needs and having to deal with any potential car accidents over the course of such a long tunnel, it’s also less disruptive. Simply due to population density and employment centers, the likely heaviest traffic is going to be westwards (to spend this much for a tunnel for vacation trips would be ridiculous—it will be commuter traffic that occupies the largest share of usage). The Oyster Bay branch serves that purpose and is double-tracked throughout. This means it’s a right-of-way that can handle as much capacity as the tunnel allows (some variants of the Gateway Project and East Side Access are downstream points that can potentially handle this increase downstream).

How this could get CDOT to pay for some of it, or at least not throw up barriers to this which would cost more time and with it more money, is that this is essentially increased potential capacity for the New Haven Line which starts bottlenecking in frequency since all branches have joined at this point, so this a reliever line for them (and a fallback redundancy ain the overall system of commuter rail lines in the Tri-State Area so that it’s a more resilient system overall, but that has to come after forcibly making the different agencies stop acting like bickering children).

With increased rail traffic, one thing that Long Island must get out of this increased rail service is the elimination of grade crossings both for safety and efficiency.

Things that would could make this worth its cost is if the Connecticut and Westchester cities with stations along the New Haven Line as well as any area around stations that the Oyster Bay Branch serves develop into stronger employmebt centers. If both directions along this branch had commuters riding during peak morning and evening hours, then there can be substantial utility value.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:09 PM
 
1,053 posts, read 719,148 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VA Yankee View Post
My reference to faster ferries was for the Hydrofoils and Hovercraft used in Europe. But if you work in Stamford/Greenwich/Port Chester is choosing to live on LI really the best choice? Yes you have the right to live where you want but even down here you think long and hard about adding the bridge/tunnel crossing into your daily commute rather than living on the side that you work.
I completely agree about commuters. I only mentioned it because others have brought it up in this thread.

I also realize you were referencing high speed ferries. My points about ferry time vs drive time still stand. The trip is relatively short and there is only some much time you can cut off with speed or travel. All the time is lost in getting to the ferry, being there early to load/unload, etc.

A flight to DC is only an hour - planes travel significantly faster than cars. However, you have to get to the airport, park, be there absurdly early to check in and clear security, board, de-plane and get out of the airport. In the end, it usually takes as much time door to door as the train (and often the same as driving). A faster plane wouldn't help much.

Regardless of the frequency or reason for travel, taking your car on the ferry vs driving around is, at best, a break-even proposition from Pt Jeff to Bridgeport (unless you live near or east of Pt Jeff). I have done it on several occasions.

For Syosset to Rye, a drive around will always make more sense than a ferry. High-speed or not. Even a fast ferry is still going to be at least a 30-minute run.

That's probably why the crossing was part of the original area highway plan. It wasn't killed because it didn't make sense. It was killed because some people didn't want outsiders driving through their towns. They still don't, which is why they have their own police department and "resident" stickers on their cars so the police know who don't belong there. Not to mention the poor road infrastructure. That's the North Shore of LI.

Quote:
Off island travel will always be a chore which is why industry doesn't want to locate there.
True. But Greenwich and Stamford have grown tremendously in the past few decades. A Syosset/Rye connection would make Long Island a viable place for commuters to live. (In theory, it might also allow businesses to locate here by giving access to the pool of workers currently in Stamford/Greenwich, along with viable road access to the rest of the country).

The connection makes a driving commute to Greenwich or Stamford about the same as an LIRR commute (and less time than a rush hour drive) to Manhattan for many people.
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Old 06-13-2018, 05:25 PM
 
1,053 posts, read 719,148 times
Reputation: 1361
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yes, there’ll definitely have to be one conducted and the ending point on both sides for car traffic will almost certainly necessitate building out the streets to allow for the large amount of traffic that will be coming.
Not as much as you might think.

If the tunnel starts anywhere near the SOB (which I believe is where the idea is currently heading) it is a relatively minor issue to connect it right to the expressway.

On the Rye side, the I-95/287 interchange is right next to the Sound. Essentially, it would be connecting one Expressway to another. No local streets involved.


Quote:
Were this to be built though, the most rational choice is still a rail tunnel.
Your points about rail are well taken. I agree that rail should be a part of the plan for many of the reasons you mention. I also don't think that's going to happen.

Currently, I doubt many commute from Eastern Nassau or Suffolk to Rye or points beyond. A connection (rail and/or car) could change that but it would take years (if it ever happened).

I also don't believe that the majority of traffic creating the eternal bottleneck we currently have is vacation traffic.

There is a considerable amount of truck traffic and other commerce that goes on between Long Island and the continent. A commuter rail line doesn't help any of that. A rail line MIGHT open up things by giving Long Islanders more employment options, but it does nothing to address the traffic situation or improve access for all the non-commuters currently creating the traffic problem.
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