C/O question Town of Brookhaven (for sale, foreclosure, mortgage)
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I purchased a home and existing home office business in that home 30 years ago. The office is in converted 2 car garage space. I always recall the seller telling me that the house was zoned for a business....whatever that means. It was 30 years ago and I didn't know much.
Since I plan on selling my home soon,without the business, I figured I would get out all my documents. I was unable to find my C/O's, so went to the town and paid my $31 for a copy. To my surprise, the C/O was for the addition of more "storage space". In other words 40 years ago, the original owner doubled the garage space from a one to two car garage. That was the only permit. I was so puzzled I started raising my voice to the people in the building dept. Very foolish on my part.
The garage conversion is basically living space with a 1/2 bath. There is also an electrical subpanel in the space. Based on the facts I uncovered, the business began operating out of that space 3-4 months after the C/O was obtained for "storage space". I honestly don't get it. That is I don't understand how all the work was completed illegally in only 3 months following the C/O. Did they actuallly put up garage doors only to take take them back off? I am tempted to use the freedom of information act to request documents relating to inspector sign offs to try to understand the timeline.
Regardless, I find myself in this predicament now, unless the paperwork got screwed up 40 years ago.Maybe the wrong box was checked on the C/O!
20 years ago I had an inspector on my property to check a pool. Not a word was said about the garage conversion. In the last 8 years I grieved my taxes 4 times with pictures of my house included in the application. My taxes were lowered all four times.
I recently read in the Town of Brookhaven code something about "existing use C/O's" if the work was done prior to 1984. I'm not sure exactly what that means. I am hoping somehow it will apply to my situation.
Can anybody give me some advice as to what to do? Should I just put the house on the market and see what happens, or go to the town with drawings in hand, and hope for the best. I realize if I'm lucky it might be a matter of couple thousand dollars, and if I'm unlucky it might mean converting it back to garage space, which would be impossible because of the expense and a slab was poured on the original slab to bring it to level.
My lawyer at the time was a friend of the family, and if he wasn't 92 years old in 2018, I would probably strangle him.
First off you must've be a very angry person take a deep breath and have a few beers. Nobody cares about c/o issues you have no open permits. I have 5 issues with no permits on my house. We received over 20 offers and where in contract in 1 week. sell the damn house buyers are emotional and will overlook anything if they like the house. Put a few grand in escrow and be done or just wait for a all cash or no mortgage contingency offers. Your biggest issue is it's Brookhaven the city buyers and the all cash Aisan's don't want to live that far out.
First off you must've be a very angry person take a deep breath and have a few beers. Nobody cares about c/o issues you have no open permits. I have 5 issues with no permits on my house. We received over 20 offers and where in contract in 1 week. sell the damn house buyers are emotional and will overlook anything if they like the house. Put a few grand in escrow and be done or just wait for a all cash or no mortgage contingency offers. Your biggest issue is it's Brookhaven the city buyers and the all cash Aisan's don't want to live that far out.
As far as the anger, you shouldn't judge somebody until you walk in their shoes.
I bought a crap business in a 10 year old poorly built development house...my fault.....30 years ago. I was young and uninformed and relied on "experts" for guidance.
Initially I rented and unbeknownst to me the same attorney allowed a clause in the contract raising the home price 10%/year until the purchase. So I overpaid for the house when I bought it, but it would have cost more to relocate the business. The house is on a main road, with a 30 mph speed limit. Me and a neighbor requested a speed study because traffic moved too fast. We wanted stop signs. The study indicated the MEDIAN speed to be 47mph, but the town refused to do anything. Eighteen wheelers going 60mph carrying asphalt and whatever at 5:30 in the morning.
I think I have a spent the majority of my adult life repairing this house myself. Redid all four bathrooms, new kitchen, landscaping, exterior siding, repainted the entire house twice, and on and on! Also did some structural repair from termites without permits. Even changed out a 2x10, 45 foot girder in my basement. Any inspector will pickup on that. All resulting from inspectors looking the other way when the house was first built.
Who would think a 10 year old house would be in such bad shape. Most recently I have spent over 1000 hours trying to get it ready for sale because my business is failing with lots of debt and I plan on filing chapter 7. The permit issue is the final nail in the coffin. If I knew I had this issue I would have let the house go into foreclosure and not spent the 1000+ hours, 1000's of dollars on remodel. The timing of filing chapter 7 has become a major issue because of the permit issue. Can't sell the house until after chapter7 because the equity is exempt if done after chapter 7. If done berfore it will be used to offset debts and I will also have to forfeit my little savings used to repair the house. I need to get out of this situation and now my house might be a very tough sell. I pray there is a paperwork issue and probably will go the way of filing the freedom of information.
Last edited by HereWeGoAgain2018; 05-14-2018 at 07:16 AM..
The town does not care about your situation, how much time you spent or what you were told.
If you want to sell your house with a converted garage the bank mostly likely will require a c/o and everything will need to be brought up to 2018 standards. It will get expensive and be time consuming.
Thanks for the input, but here is the real crux of the problem. If I go to the town for permits, will they immediately tell me to shut down my business? When I first went to the Building Deptartment 3 months ago requesting the copy of the C/O they said to me in my rage, "I hope you aren't conducting business there". Because no permits for parking, a sign, etc. So if they shut me down I lose my income. If I lose my income, game over. Or will they allow me to stay in business while making the very expensive corrections. Otherwise I would be forced into chapter 7 and foreclosure! Two years working on my house for sale all for nothing!
As far as the anger, you shouldn't judge somebody until you walk in their shoes.
I bought a crap business in a 10 year old poorly built development house...my fault.....30 years ago. I was young and uninformed and relied on "experts" for guidance.
Initially I rented and unbeknownst to me the same attorney allowed a clause in the contract raising the home price 10%/year until the purchase. So I overpaid for the house when I bought it, but it would have cost more to relocate the business. The house is on a main road, with a 30 mph speed limit. Me and a neighbor requested a speed study because traffic moved too fast. We wanted stop signs. The study indicated the MEDIAN speed to be 47mph, but the town refused to do anything. Eighteen wheelers going 60mph carrying asphalt and whatever at 5:30 in the morning.
I think I have a spent the majority of my adult life repairing this house myself. Redid all four bathrooms, new kitchen, landscaping, exterior siding, repainted the entire house twice, and on and on! Also did some structural repair from termites without permits. Even changed out a 2x10, 45 foot girder in my basement. Any inspector will pickup on that. All resulting from inspectors looking the other way when the house was first built.
Who would think a 10 year old house would be in such bad shape. Most recently I have spent over 1000 hours trying to get it ready for sale because my business is failing with lots of debt and I plan on filing chapter 7. The permit issue is the final nail in the coffin. If I knew I had this issue I would have let the house go into foreclosure and not spent the 1000+ hours, 1000's of dollars on remodel. The timing of filing chapter 7 has become a major issue because of the permit issue. Can't sell the house until after chapter7 because the equity is exempt if done after chapter 7. If done berfore it will be used to offset debts and I will also have to forfeit my little savings used to repair the house. I need to get out of this situation and now my house might be a very tough sell. I pray there is a paperwork issue and probably will go the way of filing the freedom of information.
I had termites, treated them on my own and I also replaced some joists in my basment due to the termite damage. We had 2 inspections not one noticed. I have a drop ceiling and put up insulation covering all signs of the termites damage. If you have no ceiling put one up. With that said my termites are gone and house is structurally safe. I just didn't want to deal with being forced to pay for termite treatment and engineer report for no reasons.
I had termites, treated them on my own and I also replaced some joists in my basment due to the termite damage. We had 2 inspections not one noticed. I have a drop ceiling and put up insulation covering all signs of the termites damage. If you have no ceiling put one up. With that said my termites are gone and house is structurally safe. I just didn't want to deal with being forced to pay for termite treatment and engineer report for no reasons.
Thanks for the information. I actually went to the town before I did the repair to find out the code. They said do the repair and then an inspector will tell you if it passes. I said can't I show you what I plan to do and you can give me input. They said no. So like you I didn't want to get an engineer involved. Did my research and went ahead with the work.
You cannot drop three spliced 45 foot 2x10's into a basement pocket after the fact. So they are spliced over lolly columns with 3/4" plywood. Bolted together through the plywood and along the entire length. Certainly better than new.
I also had bottom plate damage as well. That I plan to cover, but the girder would be difficult.
This was the result of poor original construction. The end of the girder sat in a baement wall pocket that was below grade. Behind the pocket was exposed sand under an adjoining slab. There was a slow leak in the copper pipe under that slab for baseboard heat that I was unaware of.
First off you must've be a very angry person take a deep breath and have a few beers. Nobody cares about c/o issues you have no open permits. I have 5 issues with no permits on my house. We received over 20 offers and where in contract in 1 week. sell the damn house buyers are emotional and will overlook anything if they like the house. Put a few grand in escrow and be done or just wait for a all cash or no mortgage contingency offers. Your biggest issue is it's Brookhaven the city buyers and the all cash Aisan's don't want to live that far out.
Agree with this. You have a CO in hand, leave it alone, don't borrow trouble. Put it on the market and see what happens.
As far as the anger, you shouldn't judge somebody until you walk in their shoes.
I bought a crap business in a 10 year old poorly built development house...my fault.....30 years ago. I was young and uninformed and relied on "experts" for guidance.
Initially I rented and unbeknownst to me the same attorney allowed a clause in the contract raising the home price 10%/year until the purchase. So I overpaid for the house when I bought it, but it would have cost more to relocate the business. The house is on a main road, with a 30 mph speed limit. Me and a neighbor requested a speed study because traffic moved too fast. We wanted stop signs. The study indicated the MEDIAN speed to be 47mph, but the town refused to do anything. Eighteen wheelers going 60mph carrying asphalt and whatever at 5:30 in the morning.
I think I have a spent the majority of my adult life repairing this house myself. Redid all four bathrooms, new kitchen, landscaping, exterior siding, repainted the entire house twice, and on and on! Also did some structural repair from termites without permits. Even changed out a 2x10, 45 foot girder in my basement. Any inspector will pickup on that. All resulting from inspectors looking the other way when the house was first built.
Who would think a 10 year old house would be in such bad shape. Most recently I have spent over 1000 hours trying to get it ready for sale because my business is failing with lots of debt and I plan on filing chapter 7. The permit issue is the final nail in the coffin. If I knew I had this issue I would have let the house go into foreclosure and not spent the 1000+ hours, 1000's of dollars on remodel. The timing of filing chapter 7 has become a major issue because of the permit issue. Can't sell the house until after chapter7 because the equity is exempt if done after chapter 7. If done berfore it will be used to offset debts and I will also have to forfeit my little savings used to repair the house. I need to get out of this situation and now my house might be a very tough sell. I pray there is a paperwork issue and probably will go the way of filing the freedom of information.
This has zero to do with your selling the house now. Keep your eyes on the prize.
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