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Old 06-25-2018, 10:51 PM
 
6,437 posts, read 3,601,781 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
The EPA doesn’t measure everything nor regulate everything. For some things the best level is zero.
No filter will accomplish that. A distillation system will. No, I haven't priced that out.
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Old 06-28-2018, 07:01 AM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,163 posts, read 8,814,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
No filter will accomplish that. A distillation system will. No, I haven't priced that out.
Actually, it won't......I did commercial/industrial water treatment for 40 years, and replaced a LOT of stills in labs that needed better water. There ARE some areas where a still would be the best option, but they're VERY expensive to operate properly, both from an energy and water usage standpoint.

For 95% of the general population, chlorinated water is the best viable alternative. I will NOT install a "whole-house" carbon filter, because what they're NOT telling you is that by removing the chlorine, you open yourself up to bacterial contamination from a number of different sources. My career was such that I was heavily involved with bioburden (bacterial contamination) in the treated water, and even in systems that had extensive, ongoing looped water systems with Ultraviolet Lights AND 0.1 micron (absolute) post filters, annual sanitization was required to maintain the system under 10 cfu's/ml. And despite that regimen, every few years one of my customers would have an "upset" (nice way of saying contamination of the water) requiring an emergency, system-wide decontamination. So, no - I don't trust these home "disinfection" units at all.

At most, I'll do POU (point of use) filtration w/carbon, but I warn my customers that they MUST disinfect the system every 6 months.
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:54 AM
 
5,501 posts, read 3,072,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
Actually, it won't......I did commercial/industrial water treatment for 40 years, and replaced a LOT of stills in labs that needed better water. There ARE some areas where a still would be the best option, but they're VERY expensive to operate properly, both from an energy and water usage standpoint.

For 95% of the general population, chlorinated water is the best viable alternative. I will NOT install a "whole-house" carbon filter, because what they're NOT telling you is that by removing the chlorine, you open yourself up to bacterial contamination from a number of different sources. My career was such that I was heavily involved with bioburden (bacterial contamination) in the treated water, and even in systems that had extensive, ongoing looped water systems with Ultraviolet Lights AND 0.1 micron (absolute) post filters, annual sanitization was required to maintain the system under 10 cfu's/ml. And despite that regimen, every few years one of my customers would have an "upset" (nice way of saying contamination of the water) requiring an emergency, system-wide decontamination. So, no - I don't trust these home "disinfection" units at all.

At most, I'll do POU (point of use) filtration w/carbon, but I warn my customers that they MUST disinfect the system every 6 months.
Interesting. So if you had a whole house system that removes most of the chlorine you’re at greater risk of contamination? Wouldn’t that contamination need to be from within the home?

I did a home water test for a home we are buying (not on LI). Everything came back negligible except for copper which was within the EPA limit. TDS and PH are good too.

Perhaps just a POU filter (RO system) at the kitchen tap for drinking water is enough, maybe also feeding the fridge ice maker?
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Old 06-28-2018, 08:59 AM
 
5,501 posts, read 3,072,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokonutty View Post
No filter will accomplish that. A distillation system will. No, I haven't priced that out.
Understood...the idea is to get as low as practicable without spending a fortune.
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Old 06-28-2018, 03:33 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,163 posts, read 8,814,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markjames68 View Post
Interesting. So if you had a whole house system that removes most of the chlorine you’re at greater risk of contamination? Wouldn’t that contamination need to be from within the home?

I did a home water test for a home we are buying (not on LI). Everything came back negligible except for copper which was within the EPA limit. TDS and PH are good too.

Perhaps just a POU filter (RO system) at the kitchen tap for drinking water is enough, maybe also feeding the fridge ice maker?
If it's designed properly, it's going to remove all of it - or reduce it enough so that the sanitant demand will exceed what's available - so, yes - greater risk. Got kids around? Ever seen where those hands have been? Or, you prep chicken in the sink, then use that same sink as you prep non-cooked items (such as a salad) - that's called cross-contamination, and I participated in an investigation once where I was able to show that preparation of chickens caused just that scenario - and 6 people were hospitalized, one of whom dang near died. That was in a commercial kitchen, and the professionally-trained chef took his job VERY seriously.

Just FYI - I'm leery of the home tests. Many of those labs are good, but they're not local so they don't know when something is outside the "norm" on results. I always recommend folks use a local testing lab so they can have someone that has a better feel for what things SHOULD be like. I have several local labs that call me from time to time, when they see something they feel is outside the norm to get feedback on it.
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Old 06-28-2018, 04:16 PM
 
5,501 posts, read 3,072,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
If it's designed properly, it's going to remove all of it - or reduce it enough so that the sanitant demand will exceed what's available - so, yes - greater risk. Got kids around? Ever seen where those hands have been? Or, you prep chicken in the sink, then use that same sink as you prep non-cooked items (such as a salad) - that's called cross-contamination, and I participated in an investigation once where I was able to show that preparation of chickens caused just that scenario - and 6 people were hospitalized, one of whom dang near died. That was in a commercial kitchen, and the professionally-trained chef took his job VERY seriously.

Just FYI - I'm leery of the home tests. Many of those labs are good, but they're not local so they don't know when something is outside the "norm" on results. I always recommend folks use a local testing lab so they can have someone that has a better feel for what things SHOULD be like. I have several local labs that call me from time to time, when they see something they feel is outside the norm to get feedback on it.
Thanks. The test was really just a data point, not meant to be conclusive. It was also during the inspection period to see if I got any leverage for it.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:48 PM
 
14 posts, read 13,773 times
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Not sure if y'all are still looking but we installed the https://waterfilterstogo.com/product...-water-filters about a year ago. So far it's been spot on. Wifey say she likes how her hair feels now...whatever that means.
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Old 09-14-2018, 01:57 PM
 
1,121 posts, read 594,190 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
If it's designed properly, it's going to remove all of it - or reduce it enough so that the sanitant demand will exceed what's available - so, yes - greater risk. Got kids around? Ever seen where those hands have been? Or, you prep chicken in the sink, then use that same sink as you prep non-cooked items (such as a salad) - that's called cross-contamination, and I participated in an investigation once where I was able to show that preparation of chickens caused just that scenario - and 6 people were hospitalized, one of whom dang near died. That was in a commercial kitchen, and the professionally-trained chef took his job VERY seriously.

Just FYI - I'm leery of the home tests. Many of those labs are good, but they're not local so they don't know when something is outside the "norm" on results. I always recommend folks use a local testing lab so they can have someone that has a better feel for what things SHOULD be like. I have several local labs that call me from time to time, when they see something they feel is outside the norm to get feedback on it.
I appreciate all the good info you gave but am confused about how cross-contamination would have anything to do with the water supply. That could happen with any water, chlorinated or not. What goes in the sink as food prep shouldn't be related to what comes out the tap at all. What am I missing here? Anyway, are you saying that due to the chlorination of the public supply, it is actually (generally) safer than a house system that isn't disinfected (often enough or properly)? That seems plausible for sure to me and I;ve never heard it before so thanks.
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Old 09-14-2018, 05:14 PM
 
Location: New Braunfels, TX
6,163 posts, read 8,814,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstermagnet View Post
I appreciate all the good info you gave but am confused about how cross-contamination would have anything to do with the water supply. That could happen with any water, chlorinated or not. What goes in the sink as food prep shouldn't be related to what comes out the tap at all. What am I missing here? Anyway, are you saying that due to the chlorination of the public supply, it is actually (generally) safer than a house system that isn't disinfected (often enough or properly)? That seems plausible for sure to me and I;ve never heard it before so thanks.
What's key here is that there is residual chlorine in your tap water as it enters your home. Installing a carbon filter at the POE (Point Of Entry) will remove that chlorine - so, any contamination inside the house will stay (and possibly grow). Salmonella is the biggest concern - it's so prevalent on so many things now, it seems. So, let's say you're prepping raw chicken - reach up, move the faucet spout out of the way, then clean up.

Next, you rinse lettuce/other produce you'll be serving raw. Reach up, move the spigot......and you transfer the salmonella back to the produce, which without that trace chlorine might rinse SOME of the salmonella off - but not all. I think you get the picture - and that bacterium could be present in a number of places. I've literally seen that exact scenario play out in a commercial kitchen (as well as a residential one), so it's something I'm VERY cautious with.

From there, you have cross-connections in your home - toilet, etc. - ANY contamination that enters CAN go back up the pipes, eventually infecting the entire piping system. That's a bit more extreme, but it HAS happened.

Hope that clarifies things a bit......
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Old 09-17-2018, 09:21 AM
 
1,121 posts, read 594,190 times
Reputation: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasRedneck View Post
What's key here is that there is residual chlorine in your tap water as it enters your home. Installing a carbon filter at the POE (Point Of Entry) will remove that chlorine - so, any contamination inside the house will stay (and possibly grow). Salmonella is the biggest concern - it's so prevalent on so many things now, it seems. So, let's say you're prepping raw chicken - reach up, move the faucet spout out of the way, then clean up.

Next, you rinse lettuce/other produce you'll be serving raw. Reach up, move the spigot......and you transfer the salmonella back to the produce, which without that trace chlorine might rinse SOME of the salmonella off - but not all. I think you get the picture - and that bacterium could be present in a number of places. I've literally seen that exact scenario play out in a commercial kitchen (as well as a residential one), so it's something I'm VERY cautious with.

From there, you have cross-connections in your home - toilet, etc. - ANY contamination that enters CAN go back up the pipes, eventually infecting the entire piping system. That's a bit more extreme, but it HAS happened.

Hope that clarifies things a bit......
Not really. I do not believe there is enough chlorine in tap water to disinfect or even remotely clean surfaces. That is done by using soap and hot water (chlorinated or not). The chlorine is just enough to make it safe to drink from a glass, shower or cook with. Who in their right mind thinks they can clean chicken out of their sink w/ regular (chlorinated) tap water?! Any restaurant would be out of business in 3 seconds flat. Any family would be constantly sick if not dead. This whole line of reasoning is just off the rails. How do people all over the country/world exist with well water or local water that isn't chlorinated?!
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