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^ Get to this point? You mean the point where the system will finally be corrected? All of the following is pertinent. I'm not sure what you really want.
It would have been corrected anyway had she just followed what she originally signed, maybe not fast enough to your and newsdays liking but oh well. The reasons she cited are complete and total BS and she knows it. She even tried to sneak it through the state legislature at first behind everyone’s back but there was so much outrage (even her fellow democrats opposed what she was doing) she backtracked. She had all that info she cited from the very beginning, yet she still promised and signed anyway. It also assumes housing values will just continue to skyrocket which we all know is nonsense. Bottom line She lied to the legislature and her constituents. Period. She’s just more political slime. But yeah you just keep on defending her. Tell that to people who may actually be priced out of their homes for simply doing what they were told by virtually everyone and trying to save a little on their already insane property taxes.
It would've worked out anyway? Really? When it depended on: "a legal strategy that would have prevented property owners from winning assessment challenges and making the system's disparities worse." People get their hands in the cookie jar and it takes swift action to prevent it. And now we're here.
Call her slime all you want, I don't care. You claim a lot of things that aren't backed up by citing anything. Frankly, I don't care if Trump did all this as long as it was done. We cannot continue to have people grieve their $600k house further and further and still have it make sense. Everyone successfully grieving means nobody gets any savings at all, so grieving back then was not some legitimate path and only served to grease some pockets in the first damned place. Nobody lost except - oh - those who had money reallocated FROM them to make up for it. A fact that you have repeatedly been ignorant to.
The fact that you still talk about the old system saving people is more evidence you don't understand that this was the right thing to do. Regardless of by whom. Regardless of who it affects - policy to right wrongs cannot account for everyone's affordability. That may sound cold-hearted but the alternative is to never have it be fair at all. Exactly what's been in place and exactly the game you think was just fine.
The fact that you hide behind what "they told you to do" - the same people who put everyone in this mess, shows that you still don't know what's right and what's not and only care about a "lying" politician. Whoopdie-doo. You live in NYS, need I remind you?
Consolidating will not solve the main problem, which is total compensation that is too high.
The target for the counties should be total reduction of teacher and police comp by 15%. That means either A) Decreasing average salary B) Increasing employee portion paid into benefits C) increase of pension contributions from Employee, either % or length of time contributed (for cops I believe they currently contribute nothing, and that has to change).
No matter how many other topics you discuss or diversions that the unions try to throw your way, the bottom line is that teachers and cops get compensated (again, it's not just about salary) too much relative to everyone else they live around with similar levels of education, and everyone else has to foot the bill. This is the largest portion of you tax bill (and don't forget police are tapping into sales tax plus all the tickets).
Very few if any teachers or cops would leave their job with a 15% net decrease in comp. It's still the best deal going. It would STILL be expensive to live on Long Island, but at least the never ending death march would be reversed temporarily.
100%. But...
We all know it will never happen. At least nor for any current employee.
Might be able to change things moving forward with new hires but that would be it.
And even that would be short term.
What would happen is, the unions would sue, and win, like they always do.
Then the county be cutting retro checks plus the additional legal costs incurred for the whole process.
The politicians wont stick it to the unions because then there would be no more favors and kick-backs.
Also, the new hires would sue at some point and win and then the county would again be cutting retro checks and end up paying them the same as the old hires. No matter what, tax payer loses.
It would've worked out anyway? Really? When it depended on: "a legal strategy that would have prevented property owners from winning assessment challenges and making the system's disparities worse." People get their hands in the cookie jar and it takes swift action to prevent it. And now we're here.
Call her slime all you want, I don't care. You claim a lot of things that aren't backed up by citing anything. Frankly, I don't care if Trump did all this as long as it was done. We cannot continue to have people grieve their $600k house further and further and still have it make sense. Everyone successfully grieving means nobody gets any savings at all, so grieving back then was not some legitimate path and only served to grease some pockets in the first damned place. Nobody lost except - oh - those who had money reallocated FROM them to make up for it. A fact that you have repeatedly been ignorant to.
The fact that you still talk about the old system saving people is more evidence you don't understand that this was the right thing to do. Regardless of by whom. Regardless of who it affects - policy to right wrongs cannot account for everyone's affordability. That may sound cold-hearted but the alternative is to never have it be fair at all. Exactly what's been in place and exactly the game you think was just fine.
The fact that you hide behind what "they told you to do" - the same people who put everyone in this mess, shows that you still don't know what's right and what's not and only care about a "lying" politician. Whoopdie-doo. You live in NYS, need I remind you?
Oh please get off your high horse. Keep using "you live in NYS so lying is A-OK and should just be accepted" unbelievable. And Ive never ONCE said there shouldn't be a reassessment and that the system isn't broken, all I said is she should have abided by the original 5 year phase in at the rate that SHE AGREED TO AND SIGNED. That would make the in some cases huge impact on people who did grieve much easier to bear. But what do you care? you want yours and you want it now. It's only fair right? Are you going to whine and moan if Curran's proposed phase in passes the state legislature too?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovi8
Regardless of who it affects - policy to right wrongs cannot account for everyone's affordability. That may sound cold-hearted but the alternative is to never have it be fair at all. Exactly what's been in place and exactly the game you think was just fine.
What a ridiculous statement. People should not be punished for a policy they had no control over right or wrong. Hence why it should be phased in but you would rather it all hit at once in the interest of "fairness" no matter what the impact to others.
Only thing more laughable than a 15% cut is the way people on here and all over social media blame everyone from the politicians to the civil servants but NEVER look at their NIMBY selves. School budgets rubber stamped w/ yes votes LONG before the 2% cap. Voting NO on the Con-Con, aka the ONLY way to break the contract stanglehold (Triborough Amendment) protected in the state constitution. Voting for the SAME incumbents and their dual party pals over and over who do NOTHING but reward their campaign contributors. Not voting AT ALL while the UNIONS (who you blame for everything) show up en masse, with their family members in tow and anyone else they can convince to support them. Look at the test opt outs. The whole region siding with teachers that god forbid their "effectiveness" should be judged (in part) on student test scores, the pillar of education will crumble for all mankind. And the sheep line up to opt out. LI is sheeple country. Feed us any BS, convince us the demographics are changing or scare us out of our own best economic interests and we'll line up to help you rob us blind. Here, take my wallet...I'm too stupid to keep it. Same with my vote.
Hint: The unions will stack the voting booths in their favor EVERY TIME. If homeowners a) do not show up or b) buy into the scare tactics or c) are just too stupid to find out and fight for whoever might represent them correctly...then we lose...again and again.
The assessment is needed of course, but make no mistake they are intentionally high-balling the values. Some will grieve, some wont. Some will win, some wont, lest there be lawsuits and refunds owed which NC does NOT want to happen. It's like gas prices. Goes from $2 to $4 per gallon. Everyone loses it. Drops to $3.25 and they are happy again...even though they just absorbed a big increase. Same for assessment. They will go from $500k to $1m and then grieve it back to $750k and feel like a winner. And frankly, that WILL ultimately balance values....EXCEPT the same dingbats will FAIL to grieve and we'll go back to the SAME problem...except base line values will be higher now. Win for Curran and NC. Not so much for the individual homeowner. Notice not one mention in Newsday about commercial properties...the steamroller that grieves and wins and gets the tax base shortfall passed onto the backs of the homeowner. The ORIGIN of the tax grievance law firm. This mess has been in effect for many years. So laughable when LIers wake up from their rip van winkle coma and get irate because of a Newsday expose. Go back to bed, folks. No need to watch the grownups fleece you blind. Values are up! Go borrow some equity and have a party! Yee-haa!
Last edited by monstermagnet; 12-18-2018 at 09:25 AM..
^ The best part of all this is people are discovering, whether through others' rants or finally reaching their limit, that they are indeed being fleeced by the civil servant machines. I hope this was a good wake-up call to many and they will stop defending their teacher friends when contract talks come around again. As we have discussed in the past, however, voting NO on the school budget every year will do little in terms of their contracts. People need to discover that too, and stop blaming that turnout alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by peconic117
Oh please get off your high horse. Keep using "you live in NYS so lying is A-OK and should just be accepted" unbelievable. And Ive never ONCE said there shouldn't be a reassessment and that the system isn't broken, all I said is she should have abided by the original 5 year phase in at the rate that SHE AGREED TO AND SIGNED. That would make the in some cases huge impact on people who did grieve much easier to bear. But what do you care? you want yours and you want it now. It's only fair right? Are you going to whine and moan if Curran's proposed phase in passes the state legislature too?
What a ridiculous statement. People should not be punished for a policy they had no control over right or wrong. Hence why it should be phased in but you would rather it all hit at once in the interest of "fairness" no matter what the impact to others.
People aren't being punished. People actually owe that amount. What's so "ridiculous" about it when everyone is paying their fair share? All it is - is unfortunate, not ridiculous. Impact to others? What about the impact for people who've already been paying more? This is what gets me about your ideals - you refuse to acknowledge that side. To quote how you responded earlier, "oh well".
I'm not saying this because I want mine now. I have nothing to receive as I'll be paying more.
^ The best part of all this is people are discovering, whether through others' rants or finally reaching their limit, that they are indeed being fleeced by the civil servant machines. I hope this was a good wake-up call to many and they will stop defending their teacher friends when contract talks come around again. As we have discussed in the past, however, voting NO on the school budget every year will do little in terms of their contracts. People need to discover that too, and stop blaming that turnout alone.
People aren't being punished. People actually owe that amount. What's so "ridiculous" about it when everyone is paying their fair share? All it is - is unfortunate, not ridiculous. Impact to others? What about the impact for people who've already been paying more? This is what gets me about your ideals - you refuse to acknowledge that side. To quote how you responded earlier, "oh well".
I'm not saying this because I want mine now. I have nothing to receive as I'll be paying more.
Its simple those people already paying more are doing so through gradual tax increases over the last decade, if it is not phased over time, there will be some that could see 4k+ increase in one year. That is the difference and its a big one.
Its simple those people already paying more are doing so through gradual tax increases over the last decade, if it is not phased over time, there will be some that could see 4k+ increase in one year. That is the difference and its a big one.
Nooooo, you're not seeing this one-sided at all...
You're arguing over how much easier they've had it being gradually hit with tax increases... that were caused by these people in the first place.
Consolidating will not solve the main problem, which is total compensation that is too high.
The target for the counties should be total reduction of teacher and police comp by 15%. That means either A) Decreasing average salary B) Increasing employee portion paid into benefits C) increase of pension contributions from Employee, either % or length of time contributed (for cops I believe they currently contribute nothing, and that has to change).
No matter how many other topics you discuss or diversions that the unions try to throw your way, the bottom line is that teachers and cops get compensated (again, it's not just about salary) too much relative to everyone else they live around with similar levels of education, and everyone else has to foot the bill. This is the largest portion of you tax bill (and don't forget police are tapping into sales tax plus all the tickets).
Very few if any teachers or cops would leave their job with a 15% net decrease in comp. It's still the best deal going. It would STILL be expensive to live on Long Island, but at least the never ending death march would be reversed temporarily.
Right off the bat I entirely appreciate how you phrased your first sentence! Right off the tip of your bat, you wrote: "Consolidating will not solve the main problem ...". This tells me at least 3 things:
You are not denying problems exist.
You are demonstrating a critical & creative thinking approach or strategy by identifying specific problem(s).
You are interested/motivated in trouble-shooting, solving, &/or resolving identified problem(s).
Fr'instance this is a basic critical & creative thinking strategy:
• Identify the problems. — “What’s the real question we’re facing here?”
• Define the context. — "What are the facts & circumstances that frame this problem?”
• Enumerate choices. — "What are our most plausible three or four options?”
• Analyze options. — "What is our best course of action, all things considered?”
• List reasons explicitly. — "Let’s be clear: Why we are making this particular choice?”
• Self-correct. — “Okay, let’s look at it again. What did we miss?”
The forum member I had responded to wrote that he or she "lives in a midsize city now with ONE school district, not 127. My taxes are 80% lower".
There are many 'moving parts' in this equation.
I agree 'consolidation of school districts may not solve the main problem' although how would one know by comparing a vague phrase such as 'midsize city somewhere' when all that is known is there is 1 school district v 127, & property taxes are 80% lower?
All I'm saying is, without further info shared, it may be as the proverbial 'comparing apples to oranges'.
What I also noted was the idea of consolidation of school districts on LI has been considered & mostly discarded. I do not know if a critical/creative thinking strategy was used in making the decision that consolidation was not our 'best course of action' as a solution.
& long story short version, “What’s the real question we’re facing here?”
Identify the main problem here in Nassau County re: property taxes.
What is it?
Is it that we have too many school districts? Is it that too many people either grieve or do not grieve their assessments/property taxes? Is it compensation? (Or any other problem to be identified)
Or is it, to paraphrase that guy who runs for various offices in one of the Manhattan boroughs: 'The Property Taxes Are Too Damn High'?
Additionally, most folks agree 'to learn from history so as not to repeat mistakes' is a good idea.
What you've suggested as a 'plausible course of action' re: schools is, imho, a good suggestion or option to be considered.
This is similar to what happened earlier with the police unions. It is better now than it was then, it had gotten completely out of hand.
Loyalty to a mechanical party machine does not have to include loyalty to their mistakes.
Nooooo, you're not seeing this one-sided at all...
You're arguing over how much easier they've had it being gradually hit with tax increases... that were caused by these people in the first place.
It’s like talking to a wall. We are going in pointless circles now.
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Right off the tip of your bat, you wrote: "Consolidating will not solve the main problem ...". This tells me at least 3 things:
