Heating Season on LI: Looking Ahead to Next Year (New York: closing, oil)

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I used to have National Grid and the heating costs were completely outrageous. The rent cost $600 a month, the utilities (through NG, which included electric) were sometimes over $500 a month with brand new everything and the thermostat set at no more than 70, ever, in a tiny little 2 bedroom apartment.

Exactly what I'm afraid of when it comes to switching to gas heat ...

[Kbinspections]

Originally Posted by iluvmycuties

Seeing as we have a huge single pane window, I'm wondering if we should take the oportunity to replace sheetrock and insulation. Take it room by room. We're planning on replacing base mouldings and installing crown, so maybe now is the time to just do it right.

Well if your going to be in the home foe a while, it a good idea. Remembers it is only exterior walls to be reinsulated. Remember that there are 2 parts, insualtion and air sealing. Make sure you seal all joints, window framing, cracks, crevices and holes. Seal around a penetrations and around wire and plumbing.

Really the 2 major areas of heat loss is the attic plane and the rim/band joist.

[Petulia]

If you call the oil supply company, they will tell you the size of your tank.

[GigiBowman]

I paid $4.25 for gas today in Huntington Village. I thought that was ridiculous until I passed a Shell on 110 in Melville and it was $4.29. I then felt I got a bargain.

OH MY GAWD!


I say we revolt buy charging all of our gas and all of our home heating all and then on the same day declaring bankruptcy lol

J/K

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by GigiBowman

I paid $4.25 for gas today in Huntington Village. I thought that was ridiculous until I passed a Shell on 110 in Melville and it was $4.29. I then felt I got a bargain.

OH MY GAWD!


I say we revolt buy charging all of our gas and all of our home heating all and then on the same day declaring bankruptcy lol

J/K

I saw $5.39 for a gallon of diesel in North Bellmore today. That one's even gonna hurt people who don't drive!

[Walter Greenspan]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I saw $5.39 for a gallon of diesel in North Bellmore today. That one's even gonna hurt people who don't drive!

Diesel and heating oil come from the same part of the distillate production, and growing worldwide demand for diesel versus gasoline has resulted in the per gallon price of diesel, which had been at a price discount to gasoline, moving to a price premium to gasoline

Using the per gallon wholesale heating oil price as
a proxy for the wholesale diesel price:

........................May 23............May 23....
..........................2007...............2008. ......
gasoline.........$2.22-74/100....$3.66-60/100
heating oil......$1.93-50/100....$3.88-89/100


Lower prices will come only after people who will allow for the extraction of oil from Alaska, off the California coast and off the Florida cost, as well as nuclear generating facilities are elected to Congress and lift the existing prohibitions that prevent the extraction of oil from Alaska, the California coast and the Florida coast.

[Samrai309]

Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan

Diesel and heating oil come from the same part of the distillate production, and growing worldwide demand for diesel versus gasoline has resulted in the per gallon price of diesel, which had been at a price discount to gasoline, moving to a price premium to gasoline

Using the per gallon wholesale heating oil price as
a proxy for the wholesale diesel price:

........................May 23............May 23....
..........................2007...............2008. ......
gasoline.........$2.22-74/100....$3.66-60/100
heating oil......$1.93-50/100....$3.88-89/100


Lower prices will come only after people who will allow for the extraction of oil from Alaska, off the California coast and off the Florida cost, as well as nuclear generating facilities are elected to Congress and lift the existing prohibitions that prevent the extraction of oil from Alaska, the California coast and the Florida coast.

Good points Walter. While diesel and home heating oil come from the same distillate production, I would like to add that the recently reformulated diesel gas from 500 ppm to 15 ppm of particulate has to affect the price somewhat. It has to be more expensive to the refining process to make the "cleaner" diesel. Couple that with increased global demand and its easier to see the run up in price. (Rediculous none the less). I often wonder what benefit drilling in Alaska, off the coast of Florida/California will have. I am not well versed on the potential supplies there but I would think the big issue would be how quickly any of that oil will make it to the refineries to make a dent in the price at the pump. I think its more of a long term scenario. Honestly, I do not think there is much that congress or anyone else can do to fix the problem in the short term. 30 years ago they grappled with the same questions regarding our energy independence but the attention span was short then--only time will tell if history will repeat.


On a side note, I cannot remember were I saw what the breakdown for a barrel of oil is in relation to the price of gas but like 75% of the price of gas is generated from the price of crude. The rest is dispersed between the oil companies, refineries, transportation costs, gas retailers, etc. Actually, oil companies do not make as much as people would like to blame them for making. Its a very strange equation but the price of crude actually negatively impacts the refineries as well, which depending on who owns the refinery, can impact the oil company if they are also the refiner. As the price of a barrel of crude goes up, the profit margin (incentive) for a refinery to make gasoline goes down or narrows. It is not economically worth it for them to manufacture (refine) gasoline so they shift ro refining other more cost-effective products. This will reduce the supply of gasoline which makes prices go up since demand has not really changed. In my opinion, I do not think all that talk of a windfall tax on the profits oil companies make is a good idea since it certainly cannot help the american people or the price of gas. You cannot fault a company for being successful. It seems more like we are looking for a scapegoat. There are so many variables. I think what we can do is make them become more fiscally responsible to the economies they affect. The government should take away all the tax breaks/incentives that oil companies receive. Its like 17 billion or something like that. For what purpose does this serve? They certainly do not seem to need it and it certainly does not make them consider alternative energies. Why would/should they? They are in the business of finding oil and drilling/pumping it out of the ground. They are oil companies and they have taken the road of least resistance to find that oil. Now that oil is getting harder to find, deeper to drill for, and in areas of the world that are not stable, they are having a harder time. They should have been using all the tax breaks wisely. Just take them away and let the companies profit dictate their operational capacities. Just my two cents.

[Walter Greenspan]

Originally Posted by Samrai309

... I would think the big issue would be how quickly any of that oil will make it to the refineries to make a dent in the price at the pump. I think its more of a long term scenario. Honestly, I do not think there is much that congress or anyone else can do to fix the problem in the short term.

If Congress had acted 10 years ago, that long term supply would now be available to the market. Even though opening up these areas to extraction would not have any near term effect, not doing so would continue the problem into the futures.

Originally Posted by Samrai309

On a side note, I cannot remember were I saw what the breakdown for a barrel of oil is in relation to the price of gas but like 75% of the price of gas is generated from the price of crude.

Rather than the price of crude oil determining the price of gasoline and other distillates, it's just the opposite: the price of gasoline and other distillates determines the price of crude oil.

In terms of what comes out of a 42-gallon barrel of crude oil: about 60% is gasoline and about 40% is heating oil, diesel, jet fuel, and other distillates.

[BuffaloTransplant]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

So I heard on CNN the other day that economists are predicting oil will hit $200 / bbl in 24 months. And it made me think of filling the oil tank before filling the gas tank on the car! I am wondering about converting to gas heat.

Of course, converting to gas could end up being a trap because then one will be stuck with National Grid, who I hear are heartily disliked by many of their customers (in the UK for example). Plus only having ONE source for heating could be a trap too and they can raise the price of gas to whatever they want and all hostages who have gas heat must pay because there is no other source. However, these days even with competition among home heating oil companies, it is still crazy expensive and as crude per bbl goes up, so do the prices.

So, has anyone converted to gas? Do you like it? Are you afraid that you will get reamed out by National Grid in the future (or do you consider yourself ALREADY being reamed out by them)? Do you think gas will have a more steady and reliable supply or is it just like oil with the dour predictions that we have already hit Peak Oil and now it will run out?

Is anyone thinking of converting to gas? Why or why not? Pros vs. cons?

Thanks for all input!

I grew up with oil and I remeber the odor and dirty furnace, etc. ...I have had gas for close to 40 years ( it is the heat of choice in WNY). The heat stays at 70ish and down to 67 nights.... my electric is NYSEG (National Grid is cheaper here and when they were local, they were fabulous, don't know now).... all together, I spend maybe ( max) $3100/year for both. Add my water and it is $3250/year total ( we do have very low water rates; this is high est.)

Gas is cleaner, a smaller furnace, easier to maintain and generally you get a gas hot water tank as well. (Ours is 60 gal.; we needed it when kids were still here.) I would die if I had to return to oil heat.

[ssmama]

Wow, you guys keep your homes hot! I'll play with the upper 60s during the day and knock it down to 60 at night, maybe 62 if it's super cold out.