Help for First Time Home Buyers (Warren: foreclosure, broker, buying)

[modmondays]

Originally Posted by AndreaII

Depends on what you consider "pricing their houses more reasonably."

If a homeowner is selling their house they've owned for 20 years, and over that 20 years have done over the kitchen, bathrooms, windows, doors, floors, etc., what you have to consider is what it cost them to do all that work. Most people aren't do-it-yourselfers, and so the work is hired out and the labor costs on LI are astronomical. Materials are expensive too - even the so-called cheap versions.

And so, you can't expect sellers to just give away all of their investment(s) in their house by setting the price so low that they'll be losing money.

If a buyer wants to find a "reasonably" priced house, they should check out the handyman specials and be prepared to invest their own $ and/or sweat equity in that. Or another solution would be to move to somewhere like central PA where you can pick up a house in great shape for about $200K. That would solve the pricing dilemma as well.

Bottom line is people who bought their houses 20 years ago for $200K will definitely not want to sell same house for $250K, which I assume would be a "reasonable" price to you, especially if they've poured about $150K into it. That $200K from 20 years ago is worth a lot more now when you take inflation into consideration.

Over the years on LI prices have always been high. It's no different now. It was tough buying a house 25 years ago. It's just as bad now - no better and no worse.

Gosh...Ive been following your posts over time and this one is really your silliest....

Lets see, for a potential buyer (as the above poster), he will walk into your "prototypical house" with 20 years worth of expensive renovations and "sweat equity" and more-than-likely be face-to-face with the following:

1) A kitchen that is 10 years outdated by todays colors, materials, hardware and use - - and we dont even want to talk about dated appliances and flooring that is likely too worn to even consider not replacing as well as countertops with grease stains impossible to remove.

2) Windows replaced 15 years ago with possible weathering issues, glass and framing that is not as weathertight as more current examples thus costing even more in energy

3) Bathrooms with the latest 1988 technology, tilework, dirty grout, not enough storage, pitted fittings and shower controls that are the equivalent of an old Howard Johnsons Motor Inn

4) Doors that have possibly warped or been painted over to the point that they dont close well anymore with aged hardware same as above conditions

5) Laminated Grey and Black built-ins from 1995 that now are like so- - 1980's!

So you see, your 20 yrs/$150k worth of home improvements you are so proud of and want to recoup its costs are likely worn, tired, dated, out of style, out of fashion - - and at the end of their life-cycle. And to any new homeowner with half a brain, likely ALL will need to be replaced (the sooner, the better!)

I think you and others are going to be waiting a long long time to sell unless you price realistically. If not, perhaps it will be you having to move to central PA - - just leave your keys at the door for your bank (or Uncle Sam) to pick up.....

[AndreaII]

Originally Posted by modmondays

Gosh...Ive been following your posts over time and this one is really your silliest....

Lets see, for a potential buyer (as the above poster), he will walk into your "prototypical house" with 20 years worth of expensive renovations and "sweat equity" and more-than-likely be face-to-face with the following:

1) A kitchen that is 10 years outdated by todays colors, materials, hardware and use - - and we dont even want to talk about dated appliances and flooring that is likely too worn to even consider not replacing as well as countertops with grease stains impossible to remove.

2) Windows replaced 15 years ago with possible weathering issues, glass and framing that is not as weathertight as more current examples thus costing even more in energy

3) Bathrooms with the latest 1988 technology, tilework, dirty grout, not enough storage, pitted fittings and shower controls that are the equivalent of an old Howard Johnsons Motor Inn

4) Doors that have possibly warped or been painted over to the point that they dont close well anymore with aged hardware same as above conditions

5) Laminated Grey and Black built-ins from 1995 that now are like so- - 1980's!

So you see, your 20 yrs/$150k worth of home improvements you are so proud of and want to recoup its costs are likely worn, tired, dated, out of style, out of fashion - - and at the end of their life-cycle. And to any new homeowner with half a brain, likely ALL will need to be replaced (the sooner, the better!)

I think you and others are going to be waiting a long long time to sell unless you price realistically. If not, perhaps it will be you having to move to central PA - - just leave your keys at the door for your bank (or Uncle Sam) to pick up.....

What you described above is nothing more than a falling-apart, dirty, handyman special. I suppose that's what you've been seeing lately, and I'm guessing that's all you can afford. So, you're bitter and upset that you can't afford a $1 million house. Because that's what you'll have to pay for a new house with new appliances, new floors, new construction, etc., etc. on 1/2 acre in a decent spot on LI. Admit it, that's what you're looking for, but you want it at used house prices.

You want the seller to put in a new granite kitchen and new marble bathrooms with jacuzzi tubs for you - and they better be in your favorite color.
You want all new landscaping complete with a pool and waterfall.
You want central air conditioning (doesn't matter if you can't run it since the utility bill will be too high for you to pay)
You want all new siding in the latest color.
You want all new gutters and leaders.
New garage doors.
All new windows and with glare and heat reduction - has to be the latest in technology, of course.
New roof - architectural of course.
Skylights and roof windows - all with glare and heat reduction.
You want new high efficiency heating.
You want a new driveway lined with stone.
And on and on.
As much as you can get for your lowballing dollar.

I have to say that my own house and many other homeowners houses that aren't brand spanking new (with the corresponding tax bills to match) are in far better condition than your ridiculous description that you posted above.

Believe it or not (and I don't think you will in your angry frame of mind, but...) not all bathrooms, floors, windows, etc., are 20+ years old in all lived-in houses. Some are only 1 or 2 years old, especially when the owners are looking towards selling and they make improvements with selling in mind. Not everyone lives in a dirty house with greasy areas.

And then there are people out there who don't let things fall apart - they actually either replace or fix them. Maybe that's hard for you to believe since it sounds as if you haven't been to any houses that have been kept up.

I really think your post insults homeowners who have been in their houses for a number of years, and are proud of where they live and what they own.

And as for your crack about how the bank is going to own my house and how I'll have to move to central PA where you probably belong, that's just more of your anger talking.

Maybe you should be looking at foreclosures - but wait a minute, that's probably where you saw the grease spots and lousy windows and warped doors.

If your above post is really the way you feel about houses on the market on LI, you should not be house hunting here since you seem to think all houses are dirty, unkept, old dumps. And why would someone as clever and savvy as you want to buy any of them?

















Maybe you should be looking at foreclosures

[lxl]

I don't think this is much help for the Long Island market.

1. You get nothing if you make over 95k as a single person or 170k as a couple per year.
2. It's an interest free loan that you have to pay back within 15 years.
3. Assuming an 6.5% mortgage rate, you save ~$300 a YEAR compare to a regular mortgage. This is the equivalent of uncle Sam (tax payers) give you $2800 today with no obligations.

$2800 is nothing in the Long Island housing market. Besides, I don't think anyone who makes less than 95k a year can afford a decent house in a good area in Long Island at the current price level. It might be a big deal in some other markets where house prices are substantially lower though.

[sean sean sean sean]

I agree with KB, this could really help a lot of areas but not so much for LI. $7,500 is probably enough to pay three or four years worth of property taxes in most parts of this country!

Originally Posted by AndreaII

Depends on what you consider "pricing their houses more reasonably."

If a homeowner is selling their house they've owned for 20 years, and over that 20 years have done over the kitchen, bathrooms, windows, doors, floors, etc., what you have to consider is what it cost them to do all that work. Most people aren't do-it-yourselfers, and so the work is hired out and the labor costs on LI are astronomical. Materials are expensive too - even the so-called cheap versions.

And so, you can't expect sellers to just give away all of their investment(s) in their house by setting the price so low that they'll be losing money.

If a buyer wants to find a "reasonably" priced house, they should check out the handyman specials and be prepared to invest their own $ and/or sweat equity in that. Or another solution would be to move to somewhere like central PA where you can pick up a house in great shape for about $200K. That would solve the pricing dilemma as well.

Bottom line is people who bought their houses 20 years ago for $200K will definitely not want to sell same house for $250K, which I assume would be a "reasonable" price to you, especially if they've poured about $150K into it. That $200K from 20 years ago is worth a lot more now when you take inflation into consideration.

Over the years on LI prices have always been high. It's no different now. It was tough buying a house 25 years ago. It's just as bad now - no better and no worse.

While I'm sure it's true that a lot of buyers are totally unrealistic and expect everything to be brand spanking new for the money ANY home on Long Island commands, just because someone spent $20k on a kitchen two years ago does not mean that it ever added so much as half of that value to the home. Have you ever shopped for a used car? Would you spend $10k on a 1985 Monte Carlo with 150,000 miles just because someone spent double that on maintenance through the years?

Not really the greatest example, but the bottom line is that the market will dictate cost no matter what. If the home buying public has suddenly decided that it's irrational to pay $700,000 for a three bedroom 1950s split level, then by all means it has in fact become irrational. In my eyes, this is not a bad thing at all. It's always been expensive to live on Long Island but at the same time salaries (across the board) have not increased at nearly the same rate as inflation has, thus it's more expensive now than ever. There was an incredible boom earlier in this decade and now prices are correcting. It's gonna open up a lot of opportunities for first time buyers, especially on the lower end of the housing market. I guess it sucks for those who missed their chance to get rich on the glory days of the roaring naughts, but let's face it....no home that was worth $200k in 1988 would be worth $250k now unless it partially collapsed, burned down or was seriously haunted. Long term, real estate is always going to be a good investment and the only sellers who are really suffering are those who bought between '02 and '06.

[modmondays]

Originally Posted by AndreaII

What you described above is nothing more than a falling-apart, dirty, handyman special. I suppose that's what you've been seeing lately, and I'm guessing that's all you can afford. So, you're bitter and upset that you can't afford a $1 million house. Because that's what you'll have to pay for a new house with new appliances, new floors, new construction, etc., etc. on 1/2 acre in a decent spot on LI. Admit it, that's what you're looking for, but you want it at used house prices.

You want the seller to put in a new granite kitchen and new marble bathrooms with jacuzzi tubs for you - and they better be in your favorite color.
You want all new landscaping complete with a pool and waterfall.
You want central air conditioning (doesn't matter if you can't run it since the utility bill will be too high for you to pay)
You want all new siding in the latest color.
You want all new gutters and leaders.
New garage doors.
All new windows and with glare and heat reduction - has to be the latest in technology, of course.
New roof - architectural of course.
Skylights and roof windows - all with glare and heat reduction.
You want new high efficiency heating.
You want a new driveway lined with stone.
And on and on.
As much as you can get for your lowballing dollar.

I have to say that my own house and many other homeowners houses that aren't brand spanking new (with the corresponding tax bills to match) are in far better condition than your ridiculous description that you posted above.

Believe it or not (and I don't think you will in your angry frame of mind, but...) not all bathrooms, floors, windows, etc., are 20+ years old in all lived-in houses. Some are only 1 or 2 years old, especially when the owners are looking towards selling and they make improvements with selling in mind. Not everyone lives in a dirty house with greasy areas.

And then there are people out there who don't let things fall apart - they actually either replace or fix them. Maybe that's hard for you to believe since it sounds as if you haven't been to any houses that have been kept up.

I really think your post insults homeowners who have been in their houses for a number of years, and are proud of where they live and what they own.

And as for your crack about how the bank is going to own my house and how I'll have to move to central PA where you probably belong, that's just more of your anger talking.

Maybe you should be looking at foreclosures - but wait a minute, that's probably where you saw the grease spots and lousy windows and warped doors.

If your above post is really the way you feel about houses on the market on LI, you should not be house hunting here since you seem to think all houses are dirty, unkept, old dumps. And why would someone as clever and savvy as you want to buy any of them?


















Maybe you should be looking at foreclosures

No...me and hubby have been looking at your standard, run-of-the-mill colonials and ranch homes in well-heeled sections of Port Wash, Roslyn, Great Neck and East Norwich areas. All priced from $800 - $1MM.............

Take a couple of chill pills.....maybe then you will sell your castle.......

[logan2k]

Originally Posted by AndreaII

Depends on what you consider "pricing their houses more reasonably."

If a homeowner is selling their house they've owned for 20 years, and over that 20 years have done over the kitchen, bathrooms, windows, doors, floors, etc., what you have to consider is what it cost them to do all that work. Most people aren't do-it-yourselfers, and so the work is hired out and the labor costs on LI are astronomical. Materials are expensive too - even the so-called cheap versions.

And so, you can't expect sellers to just give away all of their investment(s) in their house by setting the price so low that they'll be losing money.

If a buyer wants to find a "reasonably" priced house, they should check out the handyman specials and be prepared to invest their own $ and/or sweat equity in that. Or another solution would be to move to somewhere like central PA where you can pick up a house in great shape for about $200K. That would solve the pricing dilemma as well.

Bottom line is people who bought their houses 20 years ago for $200K will definitely not want to sell same house for $250K, which I assume would be a "reasonable" price to you, especially if they've poured about $150K into it. That $200K from 20 years ago is worth a lot more now when you take inflation into consideration.

Over the years on LI prices have always been high. It's no different now. It was tough buying a house 25 years ago. It's just as bad now - no better and no worse.

Reasonable = affordable. Its that simple.
Amazing how you assume what my expectations are for housing prices when I never even mentioned it. Obviously you are ticked off that you've put all your 'blood sweat and tears' and 150K into your house and its now its not worth a million dollars. Sorry to burst you bubble, but your house isn't going to appreciate 20-30% YOY anymore and I'm certainly not going to be stupid enough to pay for one that is overpriced.

You should pick up a paper if you think that things are no worse than 25 years ago.

[lxl]

Here's a cool site that shows what's on MLS, how long they have been on the market, how much they were sold for (if available) and how the prices are dropping - Bubblemap of Long Island, NY

You decide for yourself if the current asking prices are reasonable. IMO, at the end, it is the market condition that dictates what the ultimate reasonable price is. Despite the amount of "blood, sweet and tear" one put into the house, the basic rules of economics we learned from HS still apply.

demand > supply --> price rises
demand = supply --> price stays constant (inflation adjusted)
demand < supply --> price falls

It is what it is. Open a newspaper every once a in while and get a sense of what's going on today:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/01/bu...01econ.html?hp
The economy grew less than expected from April to June, the government said on Thursday, and it shrank in the final months of 2007, dimming the outlook for a quick recovery.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/31/bu...l?ref=business
The number of Americans who have seen their full-time jobs chopped to part time because of weak business has swelled to more than 3.7 million — the largest figure since the government began tracking such data more than half a century ago.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/30/bu...ref=realestate
Home prices, already falling at the steepest rate in two decades, tumbled again in May, according to the Standard & Poor’s/Case-Shiller index, a widely watched survey that measures prices in 20 major metropolitan areas. Prices were down 15.8 percent from May 2007, including a 0.9 percent one-month drop this May

[jmax]

Tom and Gigi in 3, 2, 1,...

Real Estate is local.
I am mucher busier than last month.
Houses are having multiple bids placed on them.
Things are really picking up.
A lot of great bargins out there right now.

Blah, Blah, Blah...

[KarenBo]

I've made offers on 3 houses so far and each time there were multiple offers. Apparently its a buyers market for everyone else, but I'm having no luck. Eventually it'll all come together, or I'll stay here in Brooklyn. I've stopped stressing over it.

[TomMoser]

Originally Posted by jmax

Tom and Gigi in 3, 2, 1,...

Real Estate is local.
I am mucher busier than last month.
Houses are having multiple bids placed on them.
Things are really picking up.
A lot of great bargins out there right now.

Blah, Blah, Blah...

If you pay attention to my posts, I am not simply the cheerleader that you imply. Having spent close to thirty years on Wall Street and in Real Estate I am somewhat familiar with how markets operate. There are definate signs of bottoming going on right now. Does this mean that we will not slide further? Maybe. Maybe not. I am not so vain as to suggest that I can call absolute bottoms or tops. You may have seen me warn many about the dangers of trying to time the market. I can tell you this: the way to make money in real estate or any other market is to be a contrarian. That means buy when everyone is screaming the sky is falling and sell when everyone is rushing to buy.