Why exactly is Roosevelt NY bad? (Hempstead, Union: crime rates, co-ops, schools)

[ckhthankgod]

AlexisT, I was wondering about that too. All of those communities I named have high Black and/or Hispanic populations. Are there any "diverse" communities on LI that are nice or desired?

[AlexisT]

Not really. LI is very segregated (most segregated suburb in the country apparently), and because school districts are small, they tip quickly, reinforcing segregation. Getting past the issues of the '50s and '60s has been very hard. I also think some well off black families are put off by LI's reputation.

There are several prestigious districts with large Asian populations (Herricks, Great Neck, Roslyn, Three Village come to mind), but the only really top district with a large black population is Half Hollow Hills--partly because Wheatley Heights, which is next to Wyandanch (but much nicer) is zoned for HHH.

Baldwin, Huntington, and South Huntington are all diverse and good but not top districts.

[ckhthankgod]

Yeah, it does seem like HHH is the only legitimate school district that has a good amount of different groups and that is in high regard. I was thinking maybe a district way out towards the tip of the island like Greenport. What about Manhasset or Roslyn? Maybe Valley Stream, the Babylons, Longwood and Lawrence?

[Smash255]

Originally Posted by AlexisT

Not really. LI is very segregated (most segregated suburb in the country apparently), and because school districts are small, they tip quickly, reinforcing segregation. Getting past the issues of the '50s and '60s has been very hard. I also think some well off black families are put off by LI's reputation.

There are several prestigious districts with large Asian populations (Herricks, Great Neck, Roslyn, Three Village come to mind), but the only really top district with a large black population is Half Hollow Hills--partly because Wheatley Heights, which is next to Wyandanch (but much nicer) is zoned for HHH.

Baldwin, Huntington, and South Huntington are all diverse and good but not top districts.

baldwin, and Valley Stream are also good districts, not top tier, but pretty solid districts (and much better than most of the schools in the country)
Out of all the schools with a decent sized African American population, the one with the best schools is clearly HHH, due to Wheatley Heights. Wheatley heights also has a much larger income than some of the other heavily African communities and I am pretty sure has the highest median income of any majority African American community in the entire country. It wasn't technically majority African American during the 2000 census (48%) but now likely is.

[Smash255]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Yeah, it does seem like HHH is the only legitimate school district that has a good amount of different groups and that is in high regard. I was thinking maybe a district way out towards the tip of the island like Greenport. What about Manhasset or Roslyn? Maybe Valley Stream, the Babylons, Longwood and Lawrence?

Legit is kind of relative. Many of the districts with the higher African American populations, are solid districts and better than most schools in the country, they just get viewed as not being legit since they are being compared to other LI districts.

[ckhthankgod]

True.....I got ya' as far as the districts not being as bad as some might make one believe too.

[VillageOfWestbury]

Originally Posted by Smash255

baldwin, and Valley Stream are also good districts, not top tier, but pretty solid districts (and much better than most of the schools in the country)
Out of all the schools with a decent sized African American population, the one with the best schools is clearly HHH, due to Wheatley Heights. Wheatley heights also has a much larger income than some of the other heavily African communities and I am pretty sure has the highest median income of any majority African American community in the entire country. It wasn't technically majority African American during the 2000 census (48%) but now likely is.

The key here to your statement is "majority African-American community", but your statement is not accurate. There communities in Maryland that are predominately A.A. with median incomes well over $100K....Mitchellville in Bowie, MD comes to mind. Also on L.I. I have to point out that the A.A. in Westbury Village probably have a higher income than those in Wheatley Heights. Housing in WH is easier to get into than in Westbury especially the many developments north of the Pkwy. In the 2000 census (in 1999 $) the A.A. population in Westbury Village had a median income of almost $97K...roughly 31% higher than that of the rest of the Village. I'm not aware of any community with a A.A. population > 20% with incomes greater. The only reason "Westbury" gets a relatively "bad" rap during impolite discussion is because the s.d. is primarily made up of poorer Latinos and A.A. from New Cassel zoned for the district. Even there, the test scores are far from horrible and have been on the rise steadily. Nevertheless, the more affluent folks tend to avoid the s.d. ans send their children to private school. What's the benefit? Well, I can buy a home in a beautiful neighborhood for $550 to $600K zoned in a average school district or I can buy the same home a couple blocks over (in Jericho) for $650K to $800K and have the top s.d. Also crime in the Village is fairly low (even by L.I. standards).

Oh and BTW (to the OP) the term '"desirable" is relative to the intended audience. Predominantly minority neighborhoods no matter how good scholastically/asthetically will never be "desirable" to some people.

[sean sean sean sean]

Excellent points all around! This has been a very good discussion for a topic that usually brings out the worst on this board.

Originally Posted by I have a voice

Manhattan is an anomoly given the nature of the island. Great Neck Plaza is tiny and surrounded by very affluent towns. Roosevelt is surrounded by other similar neighborhoods. Obviously I shouldn't have painted the broad stroke that ALL towns with rentals are worse than ALL towns with owned homes. However, more often than not this is the case, holding every thing else equal (that famous saying used in ecomonics).

I don't believe there's as much of a correlation as you think. Nevermind that Roosevelt has roughly as many rentals as Floral Park....but for every Freeport there is a Huntington, every Far Rockaway a Cedarhurst, every Brownsville a Park Slope, etc. Maybe way out in Suffolk (east end) there might be a more distinct relationship, but NYC suburbs are going to attract a wide variety of income ranges with a wide variety of housing requirements. Thinking that rentals = poverty is the kind of thinking that prevents young people from being able to live on LI.

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Yeah, it does seem like HHH is the only legitimate school district that has a good amount of different groups and that is in high regard. I was thinking maybe a district way out towards the tip of the island like Greenport. What about Manhasset or Roslyn? Maybe Valley Stream, the Babylons, Longwood and Lawrence?

I don't have any firsthand experience with it, but Elmont HS in the Sewanhaka SD is majority African American and can boast some pretty impressive academic accomplishments:

Elmont Memorial High School - Wikipedia

Of course, it's considered an awful school (and district) by most people on LI despite being on par with several well regarded caucasian filled districts, academically.

[AlexisT]

Originally Posted by ckhthankgod

Yeah, it does seem like HHH is the only legitimate school district that has a good amount of different groups and that is in high regard. I was thinking maybe a district way out towards the tip of the island like Greenport. What about Manhasset or Roslyn? Maybe Valley Stream, the Babylons, Longwood and Lawrence?

manhasset - all white.
Roslyn - white and Asian.

Lawrence is increasingly dominated by Inwood because Lawrence and Cedarhurst are becoming more Orthodox and they don't send to public school. This has also caused tensions in the district. I've told people to avoid Lawrence SD, not because I believe the Inwood kids are such a terrible awful influence, but because there's no need to pay Lawrence prices and taxes and deal with the district politics.

VS is a large district (set of districts, really); I don't know it so well, but I understand that some schools are better than others.

East of Huntington, I don't know the districts well, so I'll let others comment.

Malverne/Lakeview is also a decent district.

The trouble on LI is that there's "good/decent" and then there's "top tier" (and even then, some stratification). There are diverse districts in the first category, but the latter is predominantly white (with an increasing Asian minority) and wealthy.

[ckhthankgod]

This is a great discussion and finally something that is more frank and honest about how things really are. Here is a place to check schools in nassau and Suffolk Counties:https://www.nystart.gov/publicweb/Co...&county=Nassau

https://www.nystart.gov/publicweb/Co...county=Suffolk


Also, are you sure Manhasset and Roslyn are like AlexisT described? Check this out and see what you think:https://www.nystart.gov/publicweb-rc...0406030000.pdf

https://www.nystart.gov/publicweb-rc...0403030000.pdf

Checking out the information on Elmont also destroys assumptions about such schools. They are not alone and even some schools with similar demographics in different levels and that are in "poor" neighborhoods bust that myth. Two elementary schools in NY State that come to mind are P.S. 91(Albany Avenue School) in Brooklyn and Watson Williams Elementary in Utica. Check this info out on these schools:P.S. 91 Albany Avenue School Test Scores - Brooklyn, New York - NY
Student Teacher Ratio P.S. 91 Albany Avenue School - Brooklyn, New York - NY

Watson Williams Elementary School Test Scores - Utica, New York - NY
Student Teacher Ratio Watson Williams Elementary School - Utica, New York - NY