As a taxpayer....would you prefer to trim back on Education or Law Enforcement? (Stony Brook: attorneys, school district)

[dman72]

Originally Posted by I have a voice

How many years has she been teaching? It's certainly not the same as a cop who doesn't have to go to school - just simply work for 7 years to make $117k plus get all the OT he wants.

We've already established that the cops are way overpaid. Only a few very biased people will argue otherwise, and we know who they are.

Now, with the teacher situation, there are some areas that are in need of tightening up, but let's start by getting the numbers right.

[LIGIRL08]

Originally Posted by I have a voice

How many years has she been teaching? It's certainly not the same as a cop who doesn't have to go to school - just simply work for 7 years to make $117k plus get all the OT he wants.

7 years teaching. You make a good point!

[dman72]

Originally Posted by LIGIRL08

7 years teaching. You make a good point!

So, she got at job at 23...could be connected, or maybe got her degree from a really good school, I don't know.

Regardless, let's stop exaggerating about the numbers.

[LIGIRL08]

Originally Posted by dman72

So, she got at job at 23...could be connected, or maybe got her degree from a really good school, I don't know.

Regardless, let's stop exaggerating about the numbers.

I just gave you two prime examples of people barely 30 pushing $90k. Im not saying every teacher is making this much - but with the COL high, in order to afford living here my friends (who are almost all teachers) are using the plus credit route to drive up their salary - on the cost of the taxpayer. How am I exaggerating about the numbers?

If they were getting PhDs, it would be one thing. But the classes are a joke that they are taking.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by dman72

There are virtually NO single guys on LI who can afford houses!! Are you out of your mind? We have to subsidize the police so that they can own a home before they are married, where as almost no one else on LI can do this? I'm calling foul on you claiming to not have a bias.

Am I "jealous" or "envious" of their pay? Sure, but it's not like they are some high powered finance guy in NY who makes that money in the private sector. They are doing on the backs of taxpayers.

I don't go home and beat my highly compensated teacher wife over it, but I know it's messed up. They are earning more than they are justified in earning because of faulty government, and again, they know it, and so does everyone else, but you can't be surprised that they and people close to them will do anything possible to keep the gravy train rolling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/ny...ops.html?fta=y

Dear dman72,

I know several single guys who can afford houses on LI -- with and without the benefit of a degree. They might not have bought in the nicest of areas, but as single men, schools aren't an issue. It's more of a place to lay one's hat, rest and perhaps entertain a friend or two. So to answer your question, I am not out of my mind. Apparently you need to think outside the box a little. Life's not black and white -- there are many shades of gray.

So a Wall Street tycoon, who might have benefited by insider trading and other unscrupulous acts is OK in your book, but a working class guy trying to make a living and having the good fortune to get on the job in SC is bad?

1) My children receive an education from the teachers; once they have graduated and moved on I will pay into a system which I will no longer receiving anything out of.

2) Myself and everyone in Suffolk County are benefactors of the SCPD for the entirety of our time in Suffolk -- today up until the day we either move out of SC or die.

I am a taxpayer who supports both the teachers and the SCPD through my property taxes. Unlike you, I do not stand to benefit from a teacher's salary and benefits. I pay $1,400 a month for health insurance -- how about you? Oh, that's right your wife -- actually the taxpayers like me -- cover yours. So here I am, paying my own way while subsidizing the health insurance of men like you who are married to teachers.

See -- the subsidizing thing goes both ways. You think it's ok to pay taxes through the nose to the schools so that we can subsidize YOUR health insurance and other benefits, but it is not ok by you for us to pay the SCPD for similar benefits. There are streets named after you: ONE WAY.

You and your wife make $140K/year combined (you posted that on a different thread) and have a young son. It's tough to make a go of it, paying a condo common fees and mortgage while paying back school loans. I am sympathetic of that.

You've admitted that you're not thrilled by the fact that some non college educated individual can make more than you. Yes, some people feel resentment. There are some huge corporations out there which were formed by men who had no formal college training. It was recently a teaser on AOL Business and I wish I could find the link.

I'll call foul here because you have a conflict of interest in this 'discussion' you are the direct recipient of total compensation paid by the taxpayers of whatever school district your wife teaches in.

When I spend a portion of my day handling clients at the local Town offices, one of the things I am in frequent content is a disclosure form. On it, the applicant must state whether he or she has any affiliations or relations within the paid Town personnel. The forms are drawn up by the Board of Ethics and must be filed in order to keep things on the up and up and prevent any favoritism. One of the reasons you would check yes is if a spouse were employed by the Town.

You have presented a pro teacher agenda without the benefit of letting those on this board know that you are married to a teacher and thus have a large interest in her financial and employment status. In terms of Full disclosure, this was unethical.

I have attempted to converse with you in a manner in which we could bring facts to the table and learn from one another. Despite my efforts, you opted to back bite, accuse me of cop bias (why? I get no money from cops, nothing) withhold pertinent information and basically insult my character, beliefs and integrity. You have brought nothing substantial to the table to support your position, just the bias you have being married to a teacher.

There is no point trying to have a discussion when all you wish to have is the last word and you've failed to be ethical and disclose your wife's career. Tsk, tsk.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Dear dman72,

I know several single guys who can afford houses on LI -- with and without the benefit of a degree. They might not have bought in the nicest of areas, but as single men, schools aren't an issue. It's more of a place to lay one's hat, rest and perhaps entertain a friend or two. So to answer your question, I am not out of my mind. Apparently you need to think outside the box a little. Life's not black and white -- there are many shades of gray.

So a Wall Street tycoon, who might have benefited by insider trading and other unscrupulous acts is OK in your book, but a working class guy trying to make a living and having the good fortune to get on the job in SC is bad?

1) My children receive an education from the teachers; once they have graduated and moved on I will pay into a system which I will no longer receiving anything out of.

2) Myself and everyone in Suffolk County are benefactors of the SCPD for the entirety of our time in Suffolk -- today up until the day we either move out of SC or die.

I am a taxpayer who supports both the teachers and the SCPD through my property taxes. Unlike you, I do not stand to benefit from a teacher's salary and benefits. I pay $1,400 a month for health insurance -- how about you? Oh, that's right your wife -- actually the taxpayers like me -- cover yours. So here I am, paying my own way while subsidizing the health insurance of men like you who are married to teachers.

See -- the subsidizing thing goes both ways. You think it's ok to pay taxes through the nose to the schools so that we can subsidize YOUR health insurance and other benefits, but it is not ok by you for us to pay the SCPD for similar benefits. There are streets named after you: ONE WAY.

You and your wife make $140K/year combined (you posted that on a different thread) and have a young son. It's tough to make a go of it, paying a condo common fees and mortgage while paying back school loans. I am sympathetic of that.

You've admitted that you're not thrilled by the fact that some non college educated individual can make more than you. Yes, some people feel resentment. There are some huge corporations out there which were formed by men who had no formal college training. It was recently a teaser on AOL Business and I wish I could find the link.

I'll call foul here because you have a conflict of interest in this 'discussion' you are the direct recipient of total compensation paid by the taxpayers of whatever school district your wife teaches in.

When I spend a portion of my day handling clients at the local Town offices, one of the things I am in frequent content is a disclosure form. On it, the applicant must state whether he or she has any affiliations or relations within the paid Town personnel. The forms are drawn up by the Board of Ethics and must be filed in order to keep things on the up and up and prevent any favoritism. One of the reasons you would check yes is if a spouse were employed by the Town.

You have presented a pro teacher agenda without the benefit of letting those on this board know that you are married to a teacher and thus have a large interest in her financial and employment status. In terms of Full disclosure, this was unethical.

I have attempted to converse with you in a manner in which we could bring facts to the table and learn from one another. Despite my efforts, you opted to back bite, accuse me of cop bias (why? I get no money from cops, nothing) withhold pertinent information and basically insult my character, beliefs and integrity. You have brought nothing substantial to the table to support your position, just the bias you have being married to a teacher.

There is no point trying to have a discussion when all you wish to have is the last word and you've failed to be ethical and disclose your wife's career. Tsk, tsk.

I disclosed it multiple times on this board, so you just wrote a bunch of nonsense based on a false premise. Seems to be your Mo in just about everything. The wall street guy is automatically dishonest?

Let me take the same approach..you are lying about not having a bias towards cops. You have a family member or close friend who is SCPD, and more than likely you have a PBA card in your wallet.

Also, you hold enough grudge to go back through all of my posts, because I never mentioned how much my income was in the police threads, so you're also a stalker.

In addition, I have a private sector job that I pay into health insurance, so my family has double coverage. I won't be a nasty troglodyte and rub that in your face, because I actually believe in national health insurance and I have many relatives who struggle with paying premiums. I will leave the stalking and general psychosis to you.

[I have a voice]

Ohbeehave is way off base if you think most single men can afford to buy a house in their late 20's or even early 30's. Most of us start making decent money in our mid 30's - it's just the normal career progression curve. Cops on the other hand only need 7 years, without the burden of student loans given no college degree. Cops also can ramp up their salaries with OT. If top police pay was cut to 80 here on LI, a cop could byst his hump like the rest of us, and earn some extra money working OT and could still afford a house. If you don't think a 28 year old making a base pay of 80k and the ability to make substantial OT money cannot afford a house on his own, you are looney. I'm in the private sector and most of the 28 year olds I know do make 80-85K. However, they also started their careers later than most cops because of college, and they have substantial student loans for undergrad and grad school. They also do not have the luxury of earning OT, nor do they have the luxury of a free retirement program. They must pay out of their own pocket to fund their retirement. So please, you are being unrealistic when you say a cop cannot live on LI with an 80k salary.

[LIGIRL08]

Originally Posted by dman72

It's unbelievable that people can see the sky blue and say it is red.

You started off saying that your friend is in her late 20's making 90K. It turns out she's making in the low 80's and is 30, and that is not her base salary. That by definition is at least a SLIGHT exaggeration. Now, if you can't even agree that you exaggerated a little bit, we have a problem.

I agree that some of the classes teachers are taking should not count towards salary credit..I agreed with that earlier, but the more important point here, is stop exaggerating. It's rampant in any discussion about school taxes and teachers salaries.

A few years back, Sachem had to devote an entire page to dispelling false rumors about what was going on in the school district. There are few *******s who go around telling lies to try to sway peoples budget votes.

I'm not saying you are one of them, but again..we need to start getting facts and numbers straight. People are already angry enough.

the second scenario I gave you - he is definitely pushing $90K and he is 28. He coaches sports and teaches in a higher paying district. My friend who is 30 (one year over her late 20s to be exact) said herself she is in a LOW PAYING district. $83K is low paying? sign me up!

Happy now? sorry for not being exact and rounding. my apologies.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by LIGIRL08

the second scenario I gave you - he is definitely pushing $90K and he is 28. He coaches sports and teaches in a higher paying district. My friend who is 30 (one year over her late 20s to be exact) said herself she is in a LOW PAYING district. $83K is low paying? sign me up!

Happy now? sorry for not being exact and rounding. my apologies.

So you have 2 people with masters degrees making 80-90k a year. All the guys I work with who have MBAs make over 100K easily, plus bonuses and writing off every lunch and dinner on their taxes.

I'm working on my MBA, and my salary will probably jump over my wives once a achieve that.

If you want to start lowering teachers salaries, the first thing that should happen is that the requirement to have a masters should be removed. Most of my teachers never had it, so I don't think it's necessary. But, right now it's required, and teachers get paid along the lines of other people with advanced degrees.

[I have a voice]

Originally Posted by dman72

But, right now it's required, and teachers get paid along the lines of other people with advanced degrees.

Except for the county police, who get paid substantially higher (total compensation) than most people with advanced degrees and 15 years of work experience.

By the way dman72, if you don't mind me asking, where are you getting your MBA?