Welcome to Long Island:All of the Traffic, None of the Infrastucture. (Hempstead: apartments, rent)

[sean sean sean sean]

I like a lot of the ideas proposed in this thread! I've got my own, but first - to put a little perspective on things....consider this:

The population of Nassau County hasn't actually increased since the 1960s, and has fallen slightly for three straight decades now. In the same time, Suffolk's population has grown but not at an extremely fast rate. 90% of LI was developed between the end of World War II and 1960 and after that hit a brick wall. The number of families has always stayed consistent (or risen) in Nassau, however people typically have much fewer kids than they did 50 years ago. The perception that LI has gotten "overpopulated" in that time span is just that: perception and not reality. So why do things seem so much more congested nowadays?

In the early days of Nassau's incarnation as a suburb, there were nearly half the amount of automobiles per household - despite households being comprised of much larger families. I'd imagine it wasn't unheard of for a family to share one car until the kids left home. Of course that was a time when wives rarely worked, but the trend now is for children to be given their own car upon receiving their driver's license, and both parents in the vast majority of families are working full time jobs. That means more cars on the road. Additionally, you're now required to drive further to get anything you need. Malls and big box stores have effectively wiped out the small time "downtown" or shopping district of nearly every locale on LI. Yes, these areas have made a comeback as of late - but they have been reincarnated into more boutique areas with novelty shops, restaurants and bars. Almost tourist-like atmosphere....very fashion before function. For neccessities, it's a longer hike than it once was.

Another major factor is that we've lost a significant number of jobs native to LI, at least the good paying ones. Up until the 80s, defense contractors, electronics and computer-related jobs were huge on LI. These are industries that have either died or moved off LI for greener (cheaper) pastures. Instead of having several thousand people commuting to Grumman, or Photocircuits, or to the Route 110 corridor we've now got the majority of our population all going one place - Manhattan - creating a massive bottleneck through three counties, whether it be the roads or rails.

I'm pressed for time right now, so I'll post what I think should be done later tonight when I've got more than 2 minutes to think about it! It should be a pretty lengthy post haha

[Kbinspections]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I like a lot of the ideas proposed in this thread! I've got my own, but first - to put a little perspective on things....consider this:

The population of Nassau County hasn't actually increased since the 1960s, and has fallen slightly for three straight decades now. In the same time, Suffolk's population has grown but not at an extremely fast rate. 90% of LI was developed between the end of World War II and 1960 and after that hit a brick wall. The number of families has always stayed consistent (or risen) in Nassau, however people typically have much fewer kids than they did 50 years ago. The perception that LI has gotten "overpopulated" in that time span is just that: perception and not reality. So why do things seem so much more congested nowadays?

In the early days of Nassau's incarnation as a suburb, there were nearly half the amount of automobiles per household - despite households being comprised of much larger families. I'd imagine it wasn't unheard of for a family to share one car until the kids left home. Of course that was a time when wives rarely worked, but the trend now is for children to be given their own car upon receiving their driver's license, and both parents in the vast majority of families are working full time jobs. That means more cars on the road. Additionally, you're now required to drive further to get anything you need. Malls and big box stores have effectively wiped out the small time "downtown" or shopping district of nearly every locale on LI. Yes, these areas have made a comeback as of late - but they have been reincarnated into more boutique areas with novelty shops, restaurants and bars. Almost tourist-like atmosphere....very fashion before function. For neccessities, it's a longer hike than it once was.

Another major factor is that we've lost a significant number of jobs native to LI, at least the good paying ones. Up until the 80s, defense contractors, electronics and computer-related jobs were huge on LI. These are industries that have either died or moved off LI for greener (cheaper) pastures. Instead of having several thousand people commuting to Grumman, or Photocircuits, or to the Route 110 corridor we've now got the majority of our population all going one place - Manhattan - creating a massive bottleneck through three counties, whether it be the roads or rails.

I'm pressed for time right now, so I'll post what I think should be done later tonight when I've got more than 2 minutes to think about it! It should be a pretty lengthy post haha

Well stated, Sean x4

[dman72]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I like a lot of the ideas proposed in this thread! I've got my own, but first - to put a little perspective on things....consider this:

The population of Nassau County hasn't actually increased since the 1960s, and has fallen slightly for three straight decades now. In the same time, Suffolk's population has grown but not at an extremely fast rate. 90% of LI was developed between the end of World War II and 1960 and after that hit a brick wall. The number of families has always stayed consistent (or risen) in Nassau, however people typically have much fewer kids than they did 50 years ago. The perception that LI has gotten "overpopulated" in that time span is just that: perception and not reality. So why do things seem so much more congested nowadays?

In the early days of Nassau's incarnation as a suburb, there were nearly half the amount of automobiles per household - despite households being comprised of much larger families. I'd imagine it wasn't unheard of for a family to share one car until the kids left home. Of course that was a time when wives rarely worked, but the trend now is for children to be given their own car upon receiving their driver's license, and both parents in the vast majority of families are working full time jobs. That means more cars on the road. Additionally, you're now required to drive further to get anything you need. Malls and big box stores have effectively wiped out the small time "downtown" or shopping district of nearly every locale on LI. Yes, these areas have made a comeback as of late - but they have been reincarnated into more boutique areas with novelty shops, restaurants and bars. Almost tourist-like atmosphere....very fashion before function. For neccessities, it's a longer hike than it once was.

Another major factor is that we've lost a significant number of jobs native to LI, at least the good paying ones. Up until the 80s, defense contractors, electronics and computer-related jobs were huge on LI. These are industries that have either died or moved off LI for greener (cheaper) pastures. Instead of having several thousand people commuting to Grumman, or Photocircuits, or to the Route 110 corridor we've now got the majority of our population all going one place - Manhattan - creating a massive bottleneck through three counties, whether it be the roads or rails.

I'm pressed for time right now, so I'll post what I think should be done later tonight when I've got more than 2 minutes to think about it! It should be a pretty lengthy post haha

Wow, this is a pretty good point about how many more people are driving now. In many families, every person has a car by the time they are 18. For a family of 5, that's 5 cars, and everyone is driving to school or work.

[happycamper5]

I agree with smart planning, but where does it say we have to provide high speed transit to n.y.c ? we can not or never support that influx, most folks move to L.I for the refuge, at the price of high tax, high traffic.We true long islanders are a strange breed and like I said before will pay and pay and pay to keep it clean and open...look at shoreham nuclear power plant, it cost us billions to shut that down and we will do it again in a heart beat!!the proposed bridge to CT from route 135.....NOT.keep them coming we like a good fight!!!

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I like a lot of the ideas proposed in this thread! I've got my own, but first - to put a little perspective on things....consider this:

The population of Nassau County hasn't actually increased since the 1960s, and has fallen slightly for three straight decades now. In the same time, Suffolk's population has grown but not at an extremely fast rate. 90% of LI was developed between the end of World War II and 1960 and after that hit a brick wall. The number of families has always stayed consistent (or risen) in Nassau, however people typically have much fewer kids than they did 50 years ago. The perception that LI has gotten "overpopulated" in that time span is just that: perception and not reality. So why do things seem so much more congested nowadays?

In the early days of Nassau's incarnation as a suburb, there were nearly half the amount of automobiles per household - despite households being comprised of much larger families. I'd imagine it wasn't unheard of for a family to share one car until the kids left home. Of course that was a time when wives rarely worked, but the trend now is for children to be given their own car upon receiving their driver's license, and both parents in the vast majority of families are working full time jobs. That means more cars on the road. Additionally, you're now required to drive further to get anything you need. Malls and big box stores have effectively wiped out the small time "downtown" or shopping district of nearly every locale on LI. Yes, these areas have made a comeback as of late - but they have been reincarnated into more boutique areas with novelty shops, restaurants and bars. Almost tourist-like atmosphere....very fashion before function. For neccessities, it's a longer hike than it once was.

Another major factor is that we've lost a significant number of jobs native to LI, at least the good paying ones. Up until the 80s, defense contractors, electronics and computer-related jobs were huge on LI. These are industries that have either died or moved off LI for greener (cheaper) pastures. Instead of having several thousand people commuting to Grumman, or Photocircuits, or to the Route 110 corridor we've now got the majority of our population all going one place - Manhattan - creating a massive bottleneck through three counties, whether it be the roads or rails.

I'm pressed for time right now, so I'll post what I think should be done later tonight when I've got more than 2 minutes to think about it! It should be a pretty lengthy post haha

Great post

Youre right houses are bigger families are smaller and everyone and their kid has a car.

Nonetheless Suffolk is up over 100% since 1960
http://recenter.tamu.edu/Data/popcd/pc36103.htm

I guarantee the 2010 census will be staggering post 9/11.
Particularly for Brookhaven and Riverhead.

crookhaven

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by sean sean sean sean

I like a lot of the ideas proposed in this thread! I've got my own, but first - to put a little perspective on things....consider this:

The population of Nassau County hasn't actually increased since the 1960s, and has fallen slightly for three straight decades now. In the same time, Suffolk's population has grown but not at an extremely fast rate. 90% of LI was developed between the end of World War II and 1960 and after that hit a brick wall. The number of families has always stayed consistent (or risen) in Nassau, however people typically have much fewer kids than they did 50 years ago. The perception that LI has gotten "overpopulated" in that time span is just that: perception and not reality. So why do things seem so much more congested nowadays?

In the early days of Nassau's incarnation as a suburb, there were nearly half the amount of automobiles per household - despite households being comprised of much larger families. I'd imagine it wasn't unheard of for a family to share one car until the kids left home. Of course that was a time when wives rarely worked, but the trend now is for children to be given their own car upon receiving their driver's license, and both parents in the vast majority of families are working full time jobs. That means more cars on the road. Additionally, you're now required to drive further to get anything you need. Malls and big box stores have effectively wiped out the small time "downtown" or shopping district of nearly every locale on LI. Yes, these areas have made a comeback as of late - but they have been reincarnated into more boutique areas with novelty shops, restaurants and bars. Almost tourist-like atmosphere....very fashion before function. For neccessities, it's a longer hike than it once was.

Another major factor is that we've lost a significant number of jobs native to LI, at least the good paying ones. Up until the 80s, defense contractors, electronics and computer-related jobs were huge on LI. These are industries that have either died or moved off LI for greener (cheaper) pastures. Instead of having several thousand people commuting to Grumman, or Photocircuits, or to the Route 110 corridor we've now got the majority of our population all going one place - Manhattan - creating a massive bottleneck through three counties, whether it be the roads or rails.

I'm pressed for time right now, so I'll post what I think should be done later tonight when I've got more than 2 minutes to think about it! It should be a pretty lengthy post haha

Thanks for some balanced perspective amidst the hysterics...it is the evolution of a driving culture (everywhere in the country I might add) that needs to be looked at. And having spent time in DC/Baltimore corridor, Tampa, Atlanta, and LA, believe it or not, LI is in a better place driving infrastructure-wise than any of these locations (my two cents). It once took me 45 minutes to MAKE A RIGHT TURN, at a highway intersection in Tampa, because unlike LI, there were no other options (like the LIE, Northern State, 25(A), Sunrise Highway, heck even Ocean Parkway. Why we can't leverage the current bus system and trains going eastbound during rush hour is beyond me, but also has something to do with the demand for this to deliver employees to the 110 corridor, etc.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by Jrprofess

Thanks for some balanced perspective amidst the hysterics...it is the evolution of a driving culture (everywhere in the country I might add) that needs to be looked at. And having spent time in DC/Baltimore corridor, Tampa, Atlanta, and LA, believe it or not, LI is in a better place driving infrastructure-wise than any of these locations (my two cents). It once took me 45 minutes to MAKE A RIGHT TURN, at a highway intersection in Tampa, because unlike LI, there were no other options (like the LIE, Northern State, 25(A), Sunrise Highway, heck even Ocean Parkway. Why we can't leverage the current bus system and trains going eastbound during rush hour is beyond me, but also has something to do with the demand for this to deliver employees to the 110 corridor, etc.

Robert Moses Was Wrong.

Thought he could keep the "undesireables" away by keeping the Busses out and the overpasses low on The Parkways.

He never accounted for Exurbia and $4 a gallon gas.

Gotta love our racist past.


crookhaven

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by I have a voice

Why not? If Queens and Brooklyn becoming what Manhattan has become is what the masses want, then why not? It's called expansion on GDP, and with all that expansion comes more jobs and more money for everyone to spend. Yes, some of the cheaper places to live in suffolk will become more expensive, but then suffolk county will grow as a region with more jobs and more money. Of course many people would like suffolk to remain wide open, but there's too much opportunity cost. What would you prefer, to remain wide open and less wealthy, or populated and more wealthy? The trend is more population and it is going to happen whether you like it or not. Why not prepare for it and this way we can be more efficient and not have so much tax waste? And those people who like farms can move out to the midwest where they can buy a large plot of land and sit on it for as long as they would like.

The point which I replied to was that by bringing in a high speed train, people would be able to work in NYC and buy affordable homes on the east end, which would be more accessible due to the high speed train.

If the area becomes more densely populated and wealthier (as you suggest) the problem we currently face would only become more pronounced: lack of affordable housing.

Yes, the population continues to grow and people need to live somewhere. But to suggest that everyone wants to live in densely developed neighborhoods which share a common green, or that people want to live in apartments and condos is wrong.

To suggest that someone move out west to live on farmland is just as bad as people suggesting we build out LI until there is no space. People in Vermont can tell you that they are experiencing an influx of flatlanders who are buying up subdivided farmland, building homes and driving up the cost of homes in those areas. To those of us who want to make money on our homes, we say that's a good thing. To people who live in areas which they are being taxed out of (due to these new homes driving up values) it is a bad thing. Where do these displaced native Vermonters go?

We see that happening to LIers -- how many of us have seen friends and family move because taxes are out of hand and homes aren't affordable?

There is a balance which needs to be achieved. Building things up to the max is not going to retain the people LI loses.

I have no objection whatsoever with building up our infrastructure and optimizing what we have, adding where there are deficiencies. Given the high cost of fuel in addition to pollution concerns, it behooves us to develop an extensive mass transit system which would enable people to move about LI.

Affordable housing developments should be constructed in areas adjacent to major corridors -- close by for ease of commute, quick access to/from train, decreasing the need for a car. Sprawl is not the answer.

Rather than breaking new ground, there are plenty of areas which should be 'recycled and reused -- like the once proposed Pilgrim State Heartland model. Progress on redevelopment of Pilgrim State Hospital complex in Brentwood | Real Estate > Commercial & Residential Property from AllBusiness.com

Large corporations need to be attracted and those here need to be retained. Long Island has to move away from being a bedroom community for NYC; we will never be free of it completely, but it wouldn't hurt to bring more professional corporations as well as manufacturers out here. LI needs to be able to sustain all of it's residents many of whom it has been failing miserably.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

The point which I replied to was that by bringing in a high speed train, people would be able to work in NYC and buy affordable homes on the east end, which would be more accessible due to the high speed train.

If the area becomes more densely populated and wealthier (as you suggest) the problem we currently face would only become more pronounced: lack of affordable housing.

Yes, the population continues to grow and people need to live somewhere. But to suggest that everyone wants to live in densely developed neighborhoods which share a common green, or that people want to live in apartments and condos is wrong.

To suggest that someone move out west to live on farmland is just as bad as people suggesting we build out LI until there is no space. People in Vermont can tell you that they are experiencing an influx of flatlanders who are buying up subdivided farmland, building homes and driving up the cost of homes in those areas. To those of us who want to make money on our homes, we say that's a good thing. To people who live in areas which they are being taxed out of (due to these new homes driving up values) it is a bad thing. Where do these displaced native Vermonters go?

We see that happening to LIers -- how many of us have seen friends and family move because taxes are out of hand and homes aren't affordable?

There is a balance which needs to be achieved. Building things up to the max is not going to retain the people LI loses.

I have no objection whatsoever with building up our infrastructure and optimizing what we have, adding where there are deficiencies. Given the high cost of fuel in addition to pollution concerns, it behooves us to develop an extensive mass transit system which would enable people to move about LI.

Affordable housing developments should be constructed in areas adjacent to major corridors -- close by for ease of commute, quick access to/from train, decreasing the need for a car. Sprawl is not the answer.

Rather than breaking new ground, there are plenty of areas which should be 'recycled and reused -- like the once proposed Pilgrim State Heartland model. Progress on redevelopment of Pilgrim State Hospital complex in Brentwood | Real Estate > Commercial & Residential Property from AllBusiness.com

Large corporations need to be attracted and those here need to be retained. Long Island has to move away from being a bedroom community for NYC; we will never be free of it completely, but it wouldn't hurt to bring more professional corporations as well as manufacturers out here. LI needs to be able to sustain all of it's residents many of whom it has been failing miserably.

I say develop the 495 periphery with as much density and mass transit as it can bear and and protect the Shorelines and the Forks at all costs.

Our beaches are why people vacation on Long Island and the tourism dollars are vital to our economy.

Affordable should begin in the middle and aspire to the coasts.

Its happening now anyway.

crookhaven

[happycamper5]

HEY FOLKS,IF YOU PLAN TO MOVE TO LONG ISLAND BE PREPARED TO SIT IN TRAFFIC AND BE TAXED TO DEATH !!!!!!we like it that way,so dont move here then complain or try to fix it with subways and super highways......aint gonna happen..we will bankrupt you!!