Why Long Island Sucks (Hempstead, Brentwood: middle-class, apartment complexes, foreclosure)

[Dedalus]

What people think something is worth, and what someone is willing to pay, today, in cash for something are increasingly two different things. This particularly applies to LI real estate.

As I've said before, it's academic to me. I could quite easily afford to live here, I just don't like it, never did. I take no pleasure in the misfortunes of working people, anywhere. But, as NYTom pointed out in his own inimitable way...it's the survival of the fittest. As conditions change, so does the definition of who's the "fittest."

It might behoove some people to think of what the future holds.

[NickL28]

Originally Posted by momix5

Hey whoever wrote about the buyers wanting to pay 200,000 for a house this is so true, it's now a buyers market and they are waiting for people to lower there prices again and again, I am going to try and sell my house fsbo, and i know I am going to encounter all of this nonsense, the thing is I want to sell my house because of my son's asthma, but it is not a financial reason to sell my house, he gets asthma when the cold weather kicks in, it is manageable but I would like to go where there is not the abrupt change for him. Anyhow it cracks me up how buyers have offered 200,000 on a house that is appraised at 450,000.

The $200,000 house has gone the way of the 10 cent parking meter in midtown Manhattan (where you got 30 minutes per dime & free Sundays).

These days a 'starter house' starts near $500,000 in most of Nassau with $6,000 or so in annual property taxes. Queens is worse, can't touch a SFH for less than $700,000 and you are competing with people who put down between 25% - 75% cash.

If you want a $200,000 house, there are many of them in the south or maybe in the 'in state' of North Carolina (which is becoming like New Jersey) but the average for both Nassau & Suffolk is well over $400,000 and still rising.

[OvertaxedOnLI]

There actually are listings in the $200Ks on Long Island nowadays (as per a quick search of the MLS), BUT.... they are located in the following communities:

In Suffolk: Amityville, Central Islip, Coram, Huntington Station, Lindenhurst, Mastic, Mastic Beach, Ronkonkoma, Shirley, Wheatley Heights, and Wyandanch

In Nassau County, the only listings below $300,000 are found in Hempstead and Roosevelt.

With almost no exceptions, the homes prices below 300K are either in an acknowledged "depressed area" or in an undesireable section of an average/middle income community. Quite a few of them are 1- or 2-bedroom houses, and all are what can only be described as "tiny". In addition, a fair number of them are board-ups/foreclosures, which is evident from the listing photos.

I don't think anyone would have the (*ahem*)s to actually offer 200K for any house priced in the 400s! I couldn't find who originally wrote that either -- maybe it was in a completely different thread? -- but I'm sure that whoever did, was just exaggerating to make the point that some buyers have no hesitation in making ridiculously lowball offers. If a house was so egregiously overpriced for the market, I wouldn't even bother going to see it, let alone make an offer on it. Ironically there's exactly that kind of seller a few blocks away from me; I laugh every time I see the sign and every so often check MLS to see whether they've come back to reality. They're on their third listing broker since early 2006, which is no great surprise!

[nutmuffin]

REPLY TO; IHATENY:
I agree;
traffic horrendous
taxes too damn high
too crowded
low paying jobs
rent/ cost of houses too high
no public transportation to speak of..(except for the LIRR)
not alot of culture (only a few ,plays. art, museums..)
The only thing for young people to do is
a) go to bars
b) go to the movies
c) go to a mall.
d) go to a diner.

But; one thing I disagree with ; Not all people here are rude.. We are just working class people trying to make a living.. just as you are trying to finish your education. Yes, we are rushed and stressed, just as ,Im sure you are, at times.. So, we ALL have our days.. Of course there are some animals who have no manners at all.. but you will find them anywhere in the US. !!

Yes, there is definitely a documented "brain drain" here on long island.
Its caused by corrupt politicians who want to turn long island into a giant hamptons playground for themselves,. so they keep bumping up the property taxes so that eventually only Manhattan-ites and afford to live here. !
This is why working class long islanders are moving to the following states
1) North Carolina
2) Pennsylvania
3) Florida

I would be gone already if it wasnt for my parents who still live here..
and someday, when they are gone.. i will take my own advice, which i am about go give you..

GET OUT WHILE YOU STILL CAN..!!!

[nutmuffin]

REPLY TO; OVERTAXEDONLI
QUOTE:
There actually are listings in the $200Ks on Long Island nowadays (as per a quick search of the MLS), BUT ? .... they are located in the following communities:
In Suffolk: Amityville, Central Islip, Coram, Huntington Station, Lindenhurst, Mastic, Mastic Beach, Ronkonkoma, Shirley, Wheatley Heights, and Wyandanch. In Nassau County, the only listings below $300,000 are found in Hempstead and Roosevelt.
With almost no exceptions, the homes prices below 300K are either in an acknowledged "depressed area" or in an undesireable section of an average/middle income community. Quite a few of them are 1- or 2-bedroom houses, and all are what can only be described as "tiny". In addition, a fair number of them are board-ups/foreclosures, which is evident from the listing photos. "]<-- with all due respect, thats not entirely true.
There are sections which are filled with just hardworking people.. you have to look and investigate and not believe every real estate person you meet who wants a big commision and who tries to scare you away from what they call the "undesirable neighborhoods" . Ive lived on Long Island all my life and I can tell you that there are "undesirable" people living in the biggest most beautiful homes.. with manicured lawns.. . All that glitters is not gold.
The guy living in that big home... could be a drug dealer or a crooked company exec who just layed off 1000 employees . both of which could affect you, in a heartbeat.
In my opinion, heres the trap which some people fall into.. some people buy big homes which they cant afford to begin wth... then, if their company gets down sized and they get laid off--they are stuck with a 1500-2000. a month mortgage which they cant pay.. and they go bankrupt..
So, the smarter thing to do is, instead of buying the 400-500,000 home, buy the 200,00 home. keep most of your money in the bank, for a rainy day.. and if you save enough, you can fix up your home and make it look like a 500,00. home , which you only paid 200,00. for !!
The chances are that , as more people move from Queens and the other boroughs to Long Island for the land.. the value of land and homes will go up..its simple supply and demand.
A small home can be worth more, if its been kept up by the owner and its affordable.. but a big home, with large price tag.. can turn into a wreck , if no one can afford to fix it up anymore..

And about neighborhoods..You cant paint all sections with the same broad brush ..it pays to investigate....

[nymom]

Originally Posted by OvertaxedOnLI

I don't think anyone would have the (*ahem*)s to actually offer 200K for any house priced in the 400s! I couldn't find who originally wrote that either -- maybe it was in a completely different thread? -- but I'm sure that whoever did, was just exaggerating to make the point that some buyers have no hesitation in making ridiculously lowball offers. If a house was so egregiously overpriced for the market, I wouldn't even bother going to see it, let alone make an offer on it. Ironically there's exactly that kind of seller a few blocks away from me; I laugh every time I see the sign and every so often check MLS to see whether they've come back to reality. They're on their third listing broker since early 2006, which is no great surprise!

I have the same situation here. My neighbors are retired and have their house up for sale at an unreasonably high price. They are looking to buy a condo right here in town so they are in no hurry to move. They had their house up for sale all last summer, took it off the market for a few months, and now have it on the market again with a different listing agent. They realize the house is overpriced but they are willing to hold out for as long as it takes for some poor sucker to come along and give them their price. They'll probably get it and so will your neighbors if they are willing to wait.

[nymom]

Originally Posted by nutmuffin

REPLY TO; OVERTAXEDONLI
QUOTE:
There actually are listings in the $200Ks on Long Island nowadays (as per a quick search of the MLS), BUT ? .... they are located in the following communities:
In Suffolk: Amityville, Central Islip, Coram, Huntington Station, Lindenhurst, Mastic, Mastic Beach, Ronkonkoma, Shirley, Wheatley Heights, and Wyandanch. In Nassau County, the only listings below $300,000 are found in Hempstead and Roosevelt.
With almost no exceptions, the homes prices below 300K are either in an acknowledged "depressed area" or in an undesireable section of an average/middle income community. Quite a few of them are 1- or 2-bedroom houses, and all are what can only be described as "tiny". In addition, a fair number of them are board-ups/foreclosures, which is evident from the listing photos. "]<-- with all due respect, thats not entirely true.
There are sections which are filled with just hardworking people.. you have to look and investigate and not believe every real estate person you meet who wants a big commision and who tries to scare you away from what they call the "undesirable neighborhoods" . Ive lived on Long Island all my life and I can tell you that there are "undesirable" people living in the biggest most beautiful homes.. with manicured lawns.. . All that glitters is not gold.
The guy living in that big home... could be a drug dealer or a crooked company exec who just layed off 1000 employees . both of which could affect you, in a heartbeat.
In my opinion, heres the trap which some people fall into.. some people buy big homes which they cant afford to begin wth... then, if their company gets down sized and they get laid off--they are stuck with a 1500-2000. a month mortgage which they cant pay.. and they go bankrupt..
So, the smarter thing to do is, instead of buying the 400-500,000 home, buy the 200,00 home. keep most of your money in the bank, for a rainy day.. and if you save enough, you can fix up your home and make it look like a 500,00. home , which you only paid 200,00. for !!
The chances are that , as more people move from Queens and the other boroughs to Long Island for the land.. the value of land and homes will go up..its simple supply and demand.
A small home can be worth more, if its been kept up by the owner and its affordable.. but a big home, with large price tag.. can turn into a wreck , if no one can afford to fix it up anymore..

And about neighborhoods..You cant paint all sections with the same broad brush ..it pays to investigate....

At the risk of sounding elitist, I have lived on LI long enough to know that most of those towns mentioned are undesireable for a reason and you couldn't pay me to live in any of them regardless of the low prices in houses.

I'd rather take your philosophy and find one of those homes in a better neighborhood (one that, as you say, turns into a wreck because no one can afford to fix it up). That way, you're payiing a lower price in a better neighborhood, with a better school district and less crime, gangs, drugs, etc.

[nutmuffin]

Of course no one wants to see their investment loose value, but The question becomes,, which is really a bad neighborhood and which is actually a good neighborhood smeared by real estate hype and prejudice ? for the sake of the mightly dollar . I disgaree, not all the towns on your list are all bad...
For example,.are you, (and I dont mean you, Im just using the term for discussion purposes) shying away from neighborhoods due to ethnic or racial reasons ? Because that makes no sense. Firstly anyone who owns a home has a vested interest in keeping the value up, if they can , so that why I suggest that some deeper research is a good idea. Also, political and religious considerations need to weigh into a decision. Do you feel comfortable in a neighborhood of republicans or democrats? Does it matter if there are churchs or temples in the area ?
I would suggest to anyone that before taking a neighborhood at face value, go to a shopping center, or a diner ,and just walk around, talk to people, Then make the decision for yourself . Do you if you feel comfortable there.? Most people do more personal investigation when picking a car, a kitchen appliance or vacation spot, than they do on a place to live !
Bottom line, do your own personal research ,dont let a real estate person do it all for you..They have a vested interest in seeing you pay more, not getting you the best value for your money.

[nicknat]

Originally Posted by nutmuffin

Of course no one wants to see their investment loose value, but The question becomes,, which is really a bad neighborhood and which is actually a good neighborhood smeared by real estate hype and prejudice ? for the sake of the mightly dollar . I disgaree, not all the towns on your list are all bad...
For example,.are you, (and I dont mean you, Im just using the term for discussion purposes) shying away from neighborhoods due to ethnic or racial reasons ? Because that makes no sense. Firstly anyone who owns a home has a vested interest in keeping the value up, if they can , so that why I suggest that some deeper research is a good idea. Also, political and religious considerations need to weigh into a decision. Do you feel comfortable in a neighborhood of republicans or democrats? Does it matter if there are churchs or temples in the area ?
I would suggest to anyone that before taking a neighborhood at face value, go to a shopping center, or a diner ,and just walk around, talk to people, Then make the decision for yourself . Do you if you feel comfortable there.? Most people do more personal investigation when picking a car, a kitchen appliance or vacation spot, than they do on a place to live !
Bottom line, do your own personal research ,dont let a real estate person do it all for you..They have a vested interest in seeing you pay more, not getting you the best value for your money.

I agree with some of what is said here, the only problem is the neighborhoods described in an earlier post are considered less desirable in part because of the disproportianate (SP?) number of renters to homeowners. So when you talk about pride in ownership, which you may very well have, if the house next door is rented out then that goes right out the window. I'd rather live in an area predominately made up of people who own their own homes and live in that home as a single family (don't even get me started on the overcrowded living conditions in some areas...20 people to a house, outdoor summer parties where alcohol is being sold to "guests", clothes hanging to dry outside bedroom windows, 5 cars or more parked up on what's left of a lawn...the list goes on and on) It comes down to values, you want to live surrounded by people who share your beliefs in the high value of a good education, discipline at home, concern for your community and for your property!

[OvertaxedOnLI]

I am sorry if anyone interpreted my post to mean that all of the towns containing under-$300K homes are considered to be uniformly "bad"/"depressed"/"undesireable" etc. For example, no one would say that the entire Village of Amityville fits that description, but there are certain neighborhoods within Amityville that are composed mainly of homes in this price range, which by virtue of their market value or condition (or both) are rental properties for example. And as nicknat points out, neighborhoods having a high ratio of transients to on-site homeowners are generally less desirable (a good deal of the zoning on LI was and often still is intended to encourage ownership and discourage transients/rentals). Compounding the situation is that a proportion of rentals in those communities/areas are placements by Social Services which -- like it or not, but it's simply a fact -- is often not perceived as a 'positive' by potential buyers.

I entirely agree that a well-maintained home or neighborhood is absolutely no guarantee of the character of the people who live there! But the point of my post was "current selling prices" on LI, and when buying a home most people don't care whether the seller is a sinner or a saint: They're looking at House, Location, Price, Taxes and often School District. Those things, especially Location, are what drive the market.

Right or wrong, many people do indeed factor the racial makeup of a town or neighborhood within a town into their househunting decisions. It's unfair to place the blame for this entirely on realtors. When a buyer tells a realtor "I won't consider any home in Hempstead or Roosevelt", it's not the realtor's place to talk them into looking at houses there. The argument of whether it's fair or morally reprehensible to use race, ethnicity or religion as a basis for choosing where to live, is a whole other can of worms, er, another topic!

Then there's the school district thing. Say you have a family with young children and a very tight househunting budget. To buy a home in the 200K range in one of the areas I listed, may well be the financially sensible thing to do. They may be perfectly okay with the actual neighborhood the house is in. BUT.... they are NOT okay with the quality of the school district (for whatever reason) and there is NO WAY that they want their kids to attend school in that district. If they buy the 200K home the only alternative is private school, which would do as much damage to their budget on a yearly basis as buying a house in the 300K range in another district .... and so, also realizing that the resale value of the 300K home is going to be higher because it will appeal to more buyers, they don't consider the 200K house.

Again, I certainly didn't mean to imply that all the communities I listed are uniformly "bad/undesireable" (that's why I specified "or in less desireable neighborhoods of.."). However, several of those communities DO have a much higher incidence of crime, gang problems, etc both in the schools and the community, than is the average for most of the rest of LI.

Lastly, I wasn't saying that a foreclosure is automatically in a "bad" neighborhood -- only that they can sometimes be in horrendous condition. When offered at the actual foreclosure sale a vacant or boarded-up (normally the house is boarded up immediately after the defendants are out of it) house is sold strictly "as is" (no inspection or even access to the inside of the home is allowed) and it's not uncommon for the defendants to deliberately trash the inside of the house before departing. Interior walls bashed open and copper piping ripped out to be sold for scrap metal. Fixtures literally ripped from the walls. Walls spraypainted with obscenities in every room. You name it. This can happen even with foreclosures in "good" or "very good" areas but it is more often seen in neighborhoods containing homes in the bottom tier of the market.