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You know, it's occurred to me that people such as JoeL are performing a public service here in several ways:
(1) They make us appreciate the people we know who judge others solely on the basis of their actions and character rather than on their ethnicity, religion, or profession.
(2) Rebutting their constant criticisms reminds us of the many things that we love about Long Island but often take for granted much of the time.
(3) They provide excellent examples of the tastelessness and futility of ad hominem attacks in any discussion.
Their posts can even provide some comic relief, in a "Jerry Springer" sort of way...
I don't care for anti-semitism, either.
But you cannot deny the issues he raises about local corruption are very real. It's an epidemic.
And, the homicidal drivers the original poster alludes to. I've commented about it, and been responded to with 'if you don't like it, leave.' I seem to recall a Gov. Orval Faubus who thought the same way, that people who didn't like segregated schools should move up north. Old Ike straightened him out, didn't he?
What a pleasant thought...the 101st Airborne Division, armed with rifles, taking care of the cell phone yakking speed demons before they kill any more people.
Location: North of the Cow Pasture and South of the Wind Turbines
856 posts, read 2,920,896 times
Reputation: 2280
Quote:
Originally Posted by lynne068
It sounds like your jealous of the way these "princess's seem to live" I have found that people that have to comment like some of you and judge people seem to be jealous of a certain lifestyle that you dont seem to have. and because they drive a lexus and mercedes doesnt mean they are a princess..I drive a mercedes and im FAR from a princess...my dh is just very good to me.
Its not what people drive its how they drive. Mercedes and Lexus are very good cars - they are very capable cars because they have exceptional handling and power. Its the abuse by people who really cant drive in the first place and use their car like some extension of their ego. Its also become so cliche to own a mercedes have some imagination.
But you cannot deny the issues he raises about local corruption are very real. It's an epidemic.
Well now, despite all the differences of opinion that Dedalus and I have held on numerous topics, here are two things that we find ourselves in perfect agreement on. (though I'd qualify that by saying IMHO the epidemic is by no means limited to either LI or NY State!)
Here's something I just don't understand. When people insert elements of race, religion, gender, etc., into their arguments, don't they realize they're shooting themselves in the foot, credibility-wise?? Take JoeL as an example. He's angry about what is happening in Great Neck to homes and neighborhoods, and wants to let people on this forum know what's going on. That's FINE, that's GREAT, there's no reason why he shouldn't speak up, and I'm sure he wants his information to be taken seriously. But the way he presents his facts, isn't helping his cause.
JoeL's posts describe his feelings about people who are buying up the older established homes in Great Neck neighborhoods, tearing them down, and building oversized houses in violation of the existing local zoning laws and thereby destroying the traditional character of the neighborhoods. That's a legitimate complaint and one that many people everywhere are likely to sympathize with and would want to know about before moving into an area where this is being allowed to happen! That's all necessary useful information and/or facts. It's relevant.
What's not relevant is the nationality or religion of the people who are doing the buying-up/tearing-down. That has nothing to do with the problem of illegal zoning changes in a neighborhood. Would JoeL be less angry about the situation if the people buying up/rebuilding were British Protestants or Irish Catholics or American or Russian Jewish rathar than Iranian or Armenian or whatever? If he'd be just as angry no matter who did it, then why even mention the nationality of the offenders in his posts? It's not relevant.
The moment someone brings nationality/religion/etc into the mix, it alters the focus of the argument from What's Going On, to What Kind of People Are Doing It. Once that's done, the credibility of the person supplying the information takes a hit. Someone writing about "people constantly coming into Great Neck, buying up nice older homes just to tear down and build oversized monstrosities that look totally out of place in this area" is likely to be taken seriously; presenting the same facts but including ethnic comments about the people or architecture, only makes the writer likely to be dismissed (or attacked) as being bigoted, anti-Semitic, prejudiced, etc. ... and not taken seriously by anyone other than those who already share the same views.
Why don't people "get it" that it's not only what you say, it's how you say it????
...
...Take JoeL as an example. He's angry about what is happening in Great Neck to homes and neighborhoods, and wants to let people on this forum know what's going on. ... But the way he presents his facts, isn't helping his cause....What's not relevant is the nationality or religion of the people who are doing the buying-up/tearing-down... That has nothing to do with the problem of illegal zoning changes in a neighborhood. Would JoeL be less angry about the situation if the people buying up/rebuilding were British Protestants or Irish Catholics or American or Russian Jewish rathar than Iranian or Armenian or whatever? If he'd be just as angry no matter who did it, then why even mention the nationality of the offenders in his posts? It's not relevant.......Why don't people "get it" that it's not only what you say, it's how you say it????
Sheesh.
You are right- I rankle every time I see the word "Jew"
But, it is Joe's inartful wasy of expressing dismay that this specific ethnic group, with its own idea of what is aesthetically pleasing, is tranforming his home into something which is ugly, in every way, to him. He is saying they are Iranian Jews, and in a way that helps the reader understand, that they are making Great Neck look like a nice part of Iran!
He is upset because the only way to stop this change is through government, and in this case, he is in the minority. Therefore, he loses.
Now what?
He can continue to fight, or, he can leave for a place that is more like the Long Island he knew.
If he choses to leave I hope he has the sensitivity to see that when Long Islanders go elsewhere, seeking the suburbia of the 1950's-1980's, they are tranforming the new place into something the existing populace may not like.
(For those of you who do not know me from these boards, I am a Long Islander transplanted to North Carolina.)
But, it is Joe's inartful way of expressing dismay that this specific ethnic group, with its own idea of what is aesthetically pleasing, is tranforming his home into something which is ugly, in every way, to him. .....
If he choses to leave I hope he has the sensitivity to see that when Long Islanders go elsewhere, seeking the suburbia of the 1950's-1980's, they are tranforming the new place into something the existing populace may not like.
That's an excellent point, and thank you! I've read many posts on the N. Carolina boards that indicate the same feelings toward transplants from NY and Florida, that Joe is expressing toward the "newcomers" in Great Neck (though expressed in different terms, the sentiment is the much is the same: "You people are ruining what we always had and loved before you came here!")
So what's the answer here? Is there one that will satisfy everyone? Probably not. IMHO, anyone has the right to do (or build) anything on their own property that doesn't violate the local laws. I may hate the look or size of what they build, or the fact that they stripped every tree from their own land, but at the same time I don't want anyone telling me what I can and can't do (within the law) with my own property. If I want to plant a mini-forest or desert rockscape or build Versailles in miniature on my half-acre, and I can do so legally, I want the right to do that (I may not actually do it but I bloody well insist on having the right to do it!). Thus, I cannot and would not deny the same right to anyone else.
If what was going on in my neighborhood or community truly made my life intolerable and there was no legal recourse, then I'd have only two choices: Put up with it, or move elsewhere.
Corruption, cronyism, bribery.... these things can happen in any city, village or township in the world and I'm all for bringing in whatever big legal guns can be trained on that sort of thing to bust it up. But again, the focus needs to be on the actions themselves, not on the ethnicity/religion/culture/gender/etc of the participants.
It's not my concern whether they like long island or not, my job is to find them the right house.
Let me ask you another way then?
How do you "sell" Long Island to a buyer (especially one from out of state) if you hate LI so much?
I used to be in sales my self and one thing I have learned (and this pertains to anything you sell) is that in order to be successful in sales you have to believe in what you are selling.
Don't worry about Joe, he is moving to the North Fork, Mattituck and he will be met by some old school polish farming families that will not like where he is from. I think Joe will also be met by many transplants from Nassau and West Suffolk that made the same move. The North Fork, while becoming quite popular and IMPOSSIBLE to get onto the main road in the summer thanks to the wineries and the day-trippers, is steeply and deeply ingrained in its original families-the folks that tilled that land for potatoes and califlower way before grapes were even a thought.
I do hope for Joe and his family he is able to find his place in the once quiet and hardworking land. It is becoming like Western Suffolk though, so in 10 years it is anybody's guess who will be living next to Joe L.
Mattituck get ready- Joe L is coming and he has a lot to say (I am just poking at ya Joe L.-I truely hope you and your family are happy with your move)
Don't worry about Joe, he is moving to the North Fork, Mattituck and he will be met by some old school polish farming families that will not like where he is from. I think Joe will also be met by many transplants from Nassau and West Suffolk that made the same move. ...
There are many reasons, I'll just name the few that come to mind... other than that I wish I was raised in some other area of America.
BRAVO!!!!!
Brilliant post.
I grew up on Long Island and was absolutely overjoyed the day I left for good.
Your post beautifully highlights everything I said about that place for 20 years: all the hassles of living in a metropolitan area (cost, crowding, traffic) with none of the benefits (culture, convenience).
Whenever I hear of someone considering moving to Long Island I tell them to go have their head examined.
I know, which is why I added the detail Mattituck, to families like my husband's is not Mattituck anymore and they moved there in the 70's! They are not "locals." But Hub did a lot of picking in the fields in high schools, and said it was the best place on earth. We don't go out there anymore for the same reasons we left Huntington. It has changed, the economy is good because of the grapes (he did his winery stints as well), but with that good came.......housing developments (never existed before), traffic/traffic/traffic, and the creeping spread of the selfish people. It has changed, some good, some bad, just like everywhere else on LI
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(though I'd qualify that by saying IMHO the epidemic is by no means limited to either LI or NY State!)
Mattituck, to families like my husband's is not Mattituck anymore and they moved there in the 70's! They are not "locals." But Hub did a lot of picking in the fields in high schools, and said it was the best place on earth. We don't go out there anymore for the same reasons we left Huntington. It has changed, the economy is good because of the grapes (he did his winery stints as well), but with that good came.......housing developments (never existed before), traffic/traffic/traffic, and the creeping spread of the selfish people. It has changed, some good, some bad, just like everywhere else on LI 
