"Hate crime" in Patchogue (New York, York: employment, landscaping, construction)

[progressive]

Well said.

[sickofnyc99]

Well actually many "white" ethnicities have been discriminated against. The Irish were greatly discriminated against when the first waves came over. Signs of "Irish need not apply" were all over. Not to mention the chinese. And I can't possibly tell you how many Polish jokes I've had to endure. Not that I'm equating Racist jokes to getting stabbed in the chest but you get my point. Don't think "whites" have never been looked down on.

[azzurrony]

Progressive

Spare me the forum lynching here with the "shock and awe" attitude. I said what happened is sick and disgusting...but it is no worse than any other MURDER. Who are you to judge what we should be outraged about and to what level? All murders/beatings/rape in this country merit scorn. Murder is born of many things and many times it's hate. That's the world we live in.

The problem with this murder is that it is going to be used to score political points. What really offends me is when people take a horrible event like this and try to politicize it and score race and ethnic points with it. If you can't see that happening, then you are blind.

[VoyagerMan]

Originally Posted by Seann

This thread is just terrible. Hate crimes against Whites are wrong. Hate crimes against Hispanics are wrong. Hate crimes against illegal Hispanics are also wrong.

What I see here are a bunch of people grasping for false equivalencies to avoid facing the horrific act that these boys took part in.

"Well, if it was a White person......."

Bull****! It wasn't. It was a Hispanic man walking down a street minding his own damn business. He wasn't mugging anybody at a train station, so I just don't see how that is relevant, or how it makes him less innocent.

The dishonesty and the bigotry here is disgusting!

What happened is F'd up. There is no place in this world for hate like that.

I gotta say though, blacks jump white kids all the time around my area and it is never reported in the papers. But when the opposite happens, it's blown all out. Let's face reality.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by progressive

"What happened in Patchogue is sick and disgusting, but it is no worse than what happens in the streets of this country everyday."

So you are telling me that in the streets of this country a pack of high school kids that live in a nice suburban town go around targeting a specific race to beat up, and in this case murder? You are saying this happens on a daily basis? I also must add that I have read many blogs in my life here and there and this is the first time I felt the need to comment. How dare you try to lessen the magnitude of a situation like this by chalking it up to something that goes on everyday in the streets of this country? Obviously there is violence in this country every single day, but this case is far from the norm. When white people have a history of being oppressed and discriminated against then you can talk. A white person (I am white) cannot possibly comprehend what it must feel like to be a minority, and being legal or illegal is irrelevant in this case. Every human has a right to life and that does not matter if they filled out the proper documents and applied to be a citizen or not. I may have gotten off track a bit, my point was to stress that high school kids do not go around everyday in this country and murder people because of the color of their skin.

There are gang killings every day in this country where larger groups of thugs kill other smaller groups of thugs, or sometimes non gangsters who get caught in the crossfire. Now the report is saying that the kids thought that the poor guy was Mexican..maybe they wouldn't have killed him if they knew he was Ecuadorian or El salvadoran, who knows. What I've BEEN saying is that this looks like a gang incident as much as a "hate crime". I don't really think either viewpoint lessens the severity of the crime, it just takes some of the ammunition away from political race baiters like Rev. Hernandez.


My point is, and listen up, knee jerkers: we don't know the detail of what led up to this, and my observation that there are obviously minorities in the lineup of SUSPECTS, that maybe to jump and say that this is simply white on Hispanic HATE that's been brought about by sentiment over illegal immigration, fostered by STEVE LEVY (which is EXACTLY what Rev Hernandez has accused) is reprehensible. Now throw your self righteous indignation at that.

[Hinton Bound]

Great article about "Hate" crime. Hate Laws - Putting Beliefs Behind Bars

[dman72]

Just read some of the news accounts. One of the kids is Puerto Rican.

The kid who did the stabbing is white and apparently has been in racial brawls at Pat Med High Schools between Latino immigrants and white and black students who've teamed up against them, and had a swastika tattoo somewhere. So obviously, it's not a stretch to think that his motivations were racist.

As the economy gets worse you're going to see more and more of this. People looking for someone to blame.

The government should have stopped the illegal immigration a long time ago. They did virtually nothing, and now as more and more jobs are lost, some people are going to be pointing fingers someone. Does anyone have any good news?

[arangoa79]

I agree the whole illegal immigration mess needs to get fixed. Unfortunately I don't see that happening anytime soon, to much of our daily lives revolve around the sweat of illegal, whether Hispanic, Asian, or other. Imagine how much more a car wash, restaurant meal, contracting work etc.. would cost. Before the problem gets fixed the legal citizens of this country will have to either agree to pay more for these services without complaining or be willing to work for the same pay and benefits that the current workers do. I'm hopeful but skeptical at the same time.

A hate crime is a criminal offense committed against a person or property motivated, in whole or in part, by the offender's bias against a racial group, religion, ethnicity, gender, sexual preference, or disability. The offense is considered a hate crime whether or not the offender's perception of the victim as a member or supporter of a protected group is correct. It doesn't matter if one of the attackers is a minority as well, no where does it state that the crime has to be committed by someone other then then victims ethnicity.

[okaydorothy]

From what I understand also, in the school ; the minorities are bragging about not needing drivers licenses, not needing insurance etc. So In no means am I trying to understand or even slightly approve of what was done ; I abhor violance ; the kids need to be thought how to treat other children with respect at home and also in school.

I do not have children in the district, but just from what I am hearing. some children obviously feel that they can get away with things and other children wonder why.

d

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

Jrprofess--Asking that hate crimes on whites be treated or reported equally to hate crimes on other ethnicities is indirect bias? Do you realize the logical inconsistency of pairing bias with equal treatment or reporting?

Please re-read what I wrote. My comments regarding indirect bias are that (in my opinion) if your response to this heinous crime is that it "happens every day in this country" (I'll paraphrase that as "Big Whoop") and "crimes against whites go unreported" (I didn't see any stats provided on that) then you are essentially being dismissive of what occurred in light of your perception that whites are treated unfairly. So again, when a response to this murder is that whites are treated unfairly by the media, yeah, I think it highlights an indirect bias on your part. I would call that logical consistency. If you would like to start a separate thread on the unequal treatment of hate crimes against white by the media, feel free. You seem to think I would disagree with that...you might be surprised.

Also, just because grass root immigrant groups of the past have used their lobbying power for political blackmail does not make it right.
Please read what I wrote:
I 100% back Levy on his immigrant stance, and do not support the comments of this hispanic group. You see azzur, we agree .

The fact of the matter is that 2008 America caters to immigrant groups in a way that it has never done before. Americans walk on eggshells for fear of offending someone in the slightest way. Immigrant groups are allowed (and many times receive federal and state funding) for the promotion of their television, music, arts, and language. Corporations and universities alike have very rigid quotas to meet their diversity initiatives. This was never the case with past immigrant groups. So, if anything, our country has a bias towards giving deference to and favoring immigrant groups.

Based on your last paragraph you seem to have a soapbox/platform you wanted to get off of your chest regarding immigrants. That is fine. But the thread was about the concerns over an obvious (in my opinion..and the police) hate crime in Patchogue. It is a bit misplaced to drone on about how 2008 America caters to immigrant groups in a way it never did in the past when the discussion is about the brutal stabbing and death of a man because of his hispanic heritage. That is some odd "catering". Start another thread, in another forum. You might find we agree on many immigration issues.