"Hate crime" in Patchogue (Bath: lawyer, house, schools)

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Jrprofess

Based on your last paragraph you seem to have a soapbox/platform you wanted to get off of your chest regarding immigrants. That is fine. But the thread was about the concerns over an obvious (in my opinion..and the police) hate crime in Patchogue. It is a bit misplaced to drone on about how 2008 America caters to immigrant groups in a way it never did in the past when the discussion is about the brutal stabbing and death of a man because of his hispanic heritage. That is some odd "catering". Start another thread, in another forum. You might find we agree on many immigration issues.

Levy called the stabber a "white supremacist" in his most recent comments. I guess he heard about the swastika. In the same article, another Hispanic activist is saying that this was the result of "anti-Latino" legislation, Ie legislation which seeks the enforcement of immigration laws. The level of hyperbole is astonishing.

[azzurrony]

Arangoa,

I agree that much of our local economy is linked to the benefits of low cost illegal immigrant labor. However, I don't fully believe the lower wages are being "passed down" to us in the form of lower cost of services. Our services are just as much and in fact MORE expensive than other locations in the US where there is no immigrant labor.

So, theoretically we could have an economy that functions without illegal immigrants; however, it would take lazy NYers to get off their butt and do something. It would also take teenagers pulling themselves away from shopping, clubs, partying, and the beach...to go to work.

Think about it this way. If you cut the flow of illegal immigrants...you cut off the supply of workers in landscaping, construction, restaurant industry, etc. That will in the short term drive up prices (basic supply and demand). However, it will reach a point where people will start doing their own landscaping, their own renovations, and their own cooking. (Definitely a good thing for our society and environment.) That will lower demand and bring prices back down to equilibrium...and force people (and teenagers) to take more responsibility.

Illegal immigrants are a drug in the form of cheap labor that induces sloth and laziness. Let's have real borders, real employment verification, and real penalties (ie. deportation) to enforce our laws.

[azzurrony]

Jrprof

I'm hardly dismissive about the crime. I said it disgusted me. I think it is very relevant, however, to bring up the way people politicize these events for their own gain. I also believe the media subliminally perpetuates an enviroment which triggers outrage at every offense against a minority group and elevates those crimes to another level. We should all value life equally, but unfortunately, we've reached the point where we don't. We live in a society full of race baiting, the promotion of "white guilt", and the use of tragedies as political tools. Everyone is so eager to cry "bias" or "prejudice" that this behavior suppresses free speech and forces people to walk around on eggshells about what might come out of their mouth. In fact, you are a great example of this frenzy. Without even knowing me, you were very eager to jump on me and argue bias. This is not the way we should move discourse forward. We should actively listen to each other's concerns as a society without being so eager to jump and "label" people.

I agree with you that the illegal immigration stance should be in another thread, and I'm happy to start one because I haven't seen one available.

[arangoa79]

An expenssive drug at that. I just hope that eventually the situation will improve.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by azzurrony

Arangoa,

I agree that much of our local economy is linked to the benefits of low cost illegal immigrant labor. However, I don't fully believe the lower wages are being "passed down" to us in the form of lower cost of services. Our services are just as much and in fact MORE expensive than other locations in the US where there is no immigrant labor.

So, theoretically we could have an economy that functions without illegal immigrants; however, it would take lazy NYers to get off their butt and do something. It would also take teenagers pulling themselves away from shopping, clubs, partying, and the beach...to go to work.

Think about it this way. If you cut the flow of illegal immigrants...you cut off the supply of workers in landscaping, construction, restaurant industry, etc. That will in the short term drive up prices (basic supply and demand). However, it will reach a point where people will start doing their own landscaping, their own renovations, and their own cooking. (Definitely a good thing for our society and environment.) That will lower demand and bring prices back down to equilibrium...and force people (and teenagers) to take more responsibility.

Illegal immigrants are a drug in the form of cheap labor that induces sloth and laziness. Let's have real borders, real employment verification, and real penalties (ie. deportation) to enforce our laws.

This has been my contention for years. So called "free market" guys don't want the "free market" to work itself out when it comes to legal labor..they need to use illegal labor to undercut the bottom tier of the workforce. Everything you've said about what would happen without the illegals I agree with. The net affect would be a GAIN for the average Long Islander. Yes, the cost of landscaping would go up..do it yourself or pay a kid. Yes, the cost of going out to eat might go up...eat at home more often..a few less successful restaurants close. The people working LEGALLY in those industries would also have more power to earn higher wages, which means they'd have more to spend and maybe they'd be less a strain on services.

[italian23]

There was nothing racial about it. It was kids fighting. What are you gonna do? Ruin their lives for a fight? Why do we never hear this when a black or hispanic kills a white person? One of the kids was hispanic.

[TomMoser]

Originally Posted by italian23

There was nothing racial about it. It was kids fighting. What are you gonna do? Ruin their lives for a fight? Why do we never hear this when a black or hispanic kills a white person? One of the kids was hispanic.

This was not "a fight that got out of hand". It was a premeditated attack on a person who was minding his own business.

[1979]

Originally Posted by dman72

Again, one of the kids is black and the another is apparently Hispanic..his name is Jorge...and the sister of another of the kids says that he is part Hispanic. Can you be convicted of a hate crime against Hispanic people when you are Hispanic? I'm not saying it's not possible, it's just weird to me.

Also, the Police have been known to get their facts screwed up every now and then, but we'll see how it pans out.

I happen to know of a white guy who was living in Patchogue about 10 years ago and was jumped by 3 Hispanic guys and robbed and beaten. They called him gringo. It never made the papers, strangely.

The good Reverend Hernandez is the guy spouting hyperbole about this situation, not the news report. He's the one who said the Levy has blood on his hands ...because he supports the enforcement of immigration laws? This kind of thing is nothing new to him, and is the lowest form of political discourse.

Hate crimes against whites are usually snuffed out. Keep in mind, hate crime legislation was aimed specifically at helping minorities.

The economy is so terrible. There are no jobs. Yet, the immigrants keep pouring in. People get so frustrated. They see their communities being destroyed by immigrants, so many have such anti-American sentiment. They refuse to speak English, even though our ancestors had to learn. They drive wages down. Politicians and police refuse to enforce laws against illegals; people get so frustrated, then it goes to far....and something like this happens.

Or--I think they want to turn this into a hate crime. the New York liberal media might prefer to make it look like a hate crime, rather than hispanic on hispanic crime. That would only exacerbate the image of hispanics being more prone to crime.

[arangoa79]

Originally Posted by italian23

There was nothing racial about it. It was kids fighting. What are you gonna do? Ruin their lives for a fight? Why do we never hear this when a black or hispanic kills a white person? One of the kids was hispanic.

Try being up on current affairs then get back to us

Originally Posted by 1979

Hate crimes against whites are usually snuffed out. Keep in mind, hate crime legislation was aimed specifically at helping minorities.

The economy is so terrible. There are no jobs. Yet, the immigrants keep pouring in. People get so frustrated. They see their communities being destroyed by immigrants, so many have such anti-American sentiment. They refuse to speak English, even though our ancestors had to learn. They drive wages down. Politicians and police refuse to enforce laws against illegals; people get so frustrated, then it goes to far....and something like this happens.

Or--I think they want to turn this into a hate crime. the New York liberal media might prefer to make it look like a hate crime, rather than hispanic on hispanic crime. That would only exacerbate the image of hispanics being more prone to crime.

Your right it was, but that's because it was needed.

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by dman72

Levy called the stabber a "white supremacist" in his most recent comments. I guess he heard about the swastika. In the same article, another Hispanic activist is saying that this was the result of "anti-Latino" legislation, Ie legislation which seeks the enforcement of immigration laws. The level of hyperbole is astonishing.

Again, as I wrote in my first comments, I do not feel the hispanic activist comments were/are appropriate. This is all very sad.