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Old 07-23-2016, 10:03 PM
 
57 posts, read 45,398 times
Reputation: 28

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu View Post
Ok, now it's public: https://youtu.be/x3Ya-1ctHMU
Have you seen the PlaneSense4LI livestream? It's terrible that our communities are subjected to this, act of terror!

http://youtu.be/G0DhN8L7IBg
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Old 07-24-2016, 05:07 AM
 
757 posts, read 425,693 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoTheRightThingLI View Post
Have you seen the PlaneSense4LI livestream? It's terrible that our communities are subjected to this, act of terror!

http://youtu.be/G0DhN8L7IBg
It's offline
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Old 07-24-2016, 11:40 AM
 
757 posts, read 425,693 times
Reputation: 344
Recently released results of the $237,500 study confirmed what residents have been saying since at least last year: Flights have shifted. Planes fly faster and lower. Airplane noise has increased.

In California

More in
Palo Alto: Committee seeks answers to growing problems with airplane noise
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Old 07-25-2016, 10:10 AM
 
50 posts, read 37,813 times
Reputation: 68
CRV... you seem a voice of reason on these matters... (not like Samym LoL)


* NextGen is not yet operational at JFK

Not at all??? Maybe not the 'direct flightpaths' aspect, as evidenced by the over-use of 22L arc-of-doom that wastes time and fuel... but surely the low altitude concentrated path aspects that utilize the new GPS instead of radar?

* The existing "charted" flight paths into 22L have not been changed

* There are no new "charted" flight paths into 22L

I don't dispute the above (and of course we know 22L is way overused, regardless of winds), but the paths sure have changed around the country and those folks are raising hell about it. I believe at LGA as well as there is a new path (when winds are NW) that loops flight east to central Nassau (and of course over me), then south towards JFK before heading back west over much of eastern Queens and western Nassau. I have never see that used before.

* TRACON has increased the use of "visuals" into 22L especially in the 3 mile area between the ILS & VOR paths ( Albertson, East Williston, Roslyn Country Club )

* The biggest change has been the significant percentile increase of arrivals into 22L ( from about 15% about 10 yrs ago to about 35% today)

Actually since 22R/4L constructed ended last Sept, 22L use is way more than 50%. It is used 9 out of 10 weekday nights (from 4:30 PM to 12:30AM). It is used 9 out of 10 weekend days. It is used ~50% of the time during the overnight (12:30AM to 5:30AM) and used 50% of weekday days (5:30AM to 4:30). Add this all up and it way more than 50%. This is with all it's variations to the arc/loop, sometime tight (over Westbury, Carle Place), larger (over Albertson, NHP) larger over Plainview, Syosset, Old Westbury, Roslyn, Ros Heights, East Hills etc...) and sometimes the full loop up to Huntington or further NE before cutting back down thru Nassau.

* The altitude for the "charted" paths have not changed but the visuals are in the 1500' to 2500' range about 12 miles away. Not sure why ATC can't or won't get the visual altitudes to at least 3000' feet while maintaining the 3% angle of decent ( 1000' per every 3 miles)?

Is this ATC laziness, or incompetence?? 1800 feet with wheels down when 15+ miles from JFK is ridiculous!!! If 1000 per 3 miles, then realistically, should be 5000 at 15 miles... correct?. That would be much better than the existing 1800-2000.
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Old 07-25-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: New York
1,999 posts, read 4,560,406 times
Reputation: 2021
Default Tailwind landing = Instant Death

The NY TRACON is clearly showing a preference for safety and efficiency here. With summer winds prevailing from the southwest runway 22 is clearly the right choice for arrivals. Here is a perfect example today:

Quote:
JFK ATIS INFO A 1451Z. 21012G21KT 10SM SCT014 SCT095 BKN180 BKN250 26/21 A2995 (TWO NINER NINER FIVE). APPROACH IN USE ILS RY 22R, ILS RY 22L. DEPG RY 22R

With winds at 210 degrees the professional choice is clearly 22 arrivals. If they can NY ATC will use other runways, but lives will not be endangered with sketchy tailwind landings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bs26bsbs View Post

Is this ATC laziness, or incompetence?? 1800 feet with wheels down when 15+ miles from JFK is ridiculous!!! If 1000 per 3 miles, then realistically, should be 5000 at 15 miles... correct?. That would be much better than the existing 1800-2000.
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Old 07-25-2016, 04:41 PM
 
Location: New York
1,999 posts, read 4,560,406 times
Reputation: 2021
Default banal bedroom community where nothing happens

There has been a decrease in complaints. Just a very small handful of folks are objecting. It is proven that modern aircraft of this generation are much quieter than legacy aircraft and are rated at 70 dBa, the same rating as a passing car. This as an indisputable truth. The NY Tracon has done a fabulous job serving the greater public's needs and handled a dramatic increasing in air traffic while reducing delays.

Some of the numbers are extraordinary. JFK has handled 83% more passengers in 2014 versus 2001. Hats-off to the NY Tracon for handling this dramatic increase in traffic.

One thing that has changed is the dramatic increase in traffic to JFK. With the New York area enjoying a renaissance of sorts in the last 15 years folks are gravitating towards large urban areas like New York and away from banal bedroom communities where nothing much happens. With the increase in volume the traffic is clearly more frequent, even if it quieter.
Quote:
JFK Airport Statistics Over the Years

Year Plane Movements Passengers
2014 422,415 53,254,533
2001 294,026 29,350,052
2000 345,311 32,827,864
1970 365,848 19,096,705
1960 248,686 8,803,665
1949 81,115 222,620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu View Post
Samyn: I do think you know a lot of aviation. May I ask how?
I've been reading some of your old posts and it seems you know what you're talking about.


BUT, you grew up next to an airport, so it's unfair from you to disregard what others feel is "loud noise".

The fact is that every time someone moves to an area under the arc of doom, 10 or 15 miles away from any airport, it comes as a horrible surprise that you'll be forced to live with the noise of airplanes above your head, every 30 seconds. And once you buy a house there's no way back for obvious reasons.

It's a problem.
The question is, is it a new problem?

You keep saying the routes have been the same for 60 years and the airplanes are much quieter now.
How do you explain the increase in complaints?

Could it be that the engines are not on idle all the time when they enter long island, and only when they reach the airport?
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Old 07-25-2016, 05:48 PM
 
757 posts, read 425,693 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by samyn on the green View Post
With the New York area enjoying a renaissance of sorts...

Hmm, ok.

Samyn, why are airplanes flying so low 20 miles away from jfk?
Why do engines make noise if they're supposed to be on idle? Is 70db, 2000ft high, the noise of an engine on idle?
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:00 PM
 
Location: New York
1,999 posts, read 4,560,406 times
Reputation: 2021
Default Post from the other thread

The NY airspace is amazingly complex. At any time traffic from the following airports have to be separated:
  1. JFK
  2. LGA
  3. EWR
  4. ISP
  5. FRG
  6. HPN
  7. TEB
  8. HVN
  9. HTO

The main reason JFK traffic descends to 3000 and below to capture the 22L glideslope is to remain clear of HPN & HVN arrivals. The first priority is safety and aircraft separation. Just one mid-air collision can really ruin the day of the folks on-board the aircraft.

Look closely at the HPN BOUNO arrival. HPN is only a few miles north of Glen Cove L.I. HPN arrivals are pushed far east and held up for safety & clearance. Then JFK arrivals must be descended under that traffic.

JFK departures are up and over HPN arrivals at 5,000 feet and up on their way to the MERIT departure. The complexity of the NY airspace is amazing.




Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrpepelepeu View Post

Hmm, ok.

Samyn, why are airplanes flying so low 20 miles away from jfk?
Why do engines make noise if they're supposed to be on idle? Is 70db, 2000ft high, the noise of an engine on idle?
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Old 07-25-2016, 06:18 PM
 
757 posts, read 425,693 times
Reputation: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by samyn on the green View Post
The NY airspace is amazingly complex. At any time traffic from the following airports have to be separated:
  1. JFK
  2. LGA
  3. EWR
  4. ISP
  5. FRG
  6. HPN
  7. TEB
  8. HVN
  9. HTO

The main reason JFK traffic descends to 3000 and below to capture the 22L glideslope is to remain clear of HPN & HVN arrivals. The first priority is safety and aircraft separation. Just one mid-air collision can really ruin the day of the folks on-board the aircraft.

Look closely at the HPN BOUNO arrival. HPN is only a few miles north of Glen Cove L.I. HPN arrivals are pushed far east and held up for safety & clearance. Then JFK arrivals must be descended under that traffic.

JFK departures are up and over HPN arrivals at 5,000 feet and up on their way to the MERIT departure. The complexity of the NY airspace is amazing.

Thanks, I appreciate this.

What are your thoughts regarding the sustainability of this traffic in the next 10 years or so? Do you think there's a plan to deal with all this traffic? I mean, it'll definitely get busier...
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Old 07-26-2016, 05:18 AM
 
188 posts, read 128,566 times
Reputation: 81
That's what happens when you have a number of major airports to your west.
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