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Old 12-22-2008, 07:45 AM
 
7,658 posts, read 11,106,541 times
Reputation: 1221

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I just got back from a Three Village Class of Eightysomething get together.

It seems my remaining few(those not financially forced off the island)peers fall into 4 distinct camps.

1)The Trust Fund Wealthy and Blissfully Oblivious. Those N of 25a kids always had some coin

2)The Mole Men. Those priced out of the market and permanently subterannean.
(Basement apartments for life)

3)The McMansioned. Those desperatley trying to keep up with the Schwartzes despite the fact that they own nothing and are on the precipice of complete collapse. (AKA The just shoot me's)

4)The Forever Starters. Those living beneath their means in their 1100 SF Starter Ranches (beyond the 3V District) with a little bit left over to take their kids to Disney.(AKA the cozy confidents)

What Im curious about is what ever became of Group 4? Why are they the minority?

Why has our Housing stock completely drifted away from Levittown? Why are we eating up land at an alarming rate while bankrupting our working class or sending them off to the Carolinas or back to NYC?

Why have we lost our way?

Sobering times indeed.

crookhaven
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:25 AM
 
1,303 posts, read 2,142,632 times
Reputation: 329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookhaven View Post
I just got back from a Three Village Class of Eightysomething get together.

It seems my remaining few(those not financially forced off the island)peers fall into 4 distinct camps.

1)The Trust Fund Wealthy and Blissfully Oblivious. Those N of 25a kids always had some coin

2)The Mole Men. Those priced out of the market and permanently subterannean.
(Basement apartments for life)

3)The McMansioned. Those desperatley trying to keep up with the Schwartzes despite the fact that they own nothing and are on the precipice of complete collapse. (AKA The just shoot me's)

4)The Forever Starters. Those living beneath their means in their 1100 SF Starter Ranches (beyond the 3V District) with a little bit left over to take their kids to Disney.(AKA the cozy confidents)

What Im curious about is what ever became of Group 4? Why are they the minority?

Why has our Housing stock completely drifted away from Levittown? Why are we eating up land at an alarming rate while bankrupting our working class or sending them off to the Carolinas or back to NYC?

Why have we lost our way?

Sobering times indeed.

crookhaven
In answer to #4...capitalism. There is less money to be made on the 1100 square foot house, particularly when you are charging obscene amounts for the parcels of land to start with...hard to lay blame on this one. Is it the Towns for trying to max out the price they can get for the land? The farmer who can no longer make a go of it and wants to make the most money? The zoning boards and bloated local governments who want to make higher taxes off of a 3000+ square foot home instead of an 1100 square foot assessment to cover schools, services, etc...? Maybe when people stop buying the McMansions and seeking these areas and homes ideas will change...doubtful. I would like to see some smart dense community building to offer elderly and early professionals an option. I do not see this ever changing though. You could look at it this way. The New York prime price they could fetch does leave them better off than other parts of the country like Michigan, Ohio, etc.
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Old 12-22-2008, 09:49 AM
 
7,658 posts, read 11,106,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrprofess View Post
In answer to #4...capitalism. There is less money to be made on the 1100 square foot house, particularly when you are charging obscene amounts for the parcels of land to start with...hard to lay blame on this one. Is it the Towns for trying to max out the price they can get for the land? The farmer who can no longer make a go of it and wants to make the most money? The zoning boards and bloated local governments who want to make higher taxes off of a 3000+ square foot home instead of an 1100 square foot assessment to cover schools, services, etc...? Maybe when people stop buying the McMansions and seeking these areas and homes ideas will change...doubtful. I would like to see some smart dense community building to offer elderly and early professionals an option. I do not see this ever changing though. You could look at it this way. The New York prime price they could fetch does leave them better off than other parts of the country like Michigan, Ohio, etc.
Capitalism....or shortsighted greed on the part of the developers?

Wouldnt we be able to pull in the Mole Men with affordable starter communities?

Would we agree that the Levittown experiment was a success?

Woudnt 3 starters on 1/3rd Acre add more to the Tax base than 1 McMansion an an Acre?
(more kids too though).

Not sure what the answer is ...but what were doing isnt working.
The high cost of energy might begin to drive smaller construction.

Long Island needs a new Levittown and better public transportation.

crooks
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Old 12-22-2008, 12:09 PM
 
401 posts, read 1,039,037 times
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I've been looking for my 1100 SF ranch since 2005!!

A lot of this was caused by the mortgage industry, lending exotic mortgages so the housing went up up up. I wouldn't buy here now anyway so I'm glad I waited. Taxes and utility bills are ridiculously high, as well as everything else. And more and more people are rude, no sense of community.

It's ridiculous that a starter home is considered to be 350k-450k. That's luxury in many other places. Prices are coming down, but sellers are stubborn and entitled. You'd be shocked at the amount of bank owned and foreclosures there are in the neighborhood you live in(not aiming anyone here, just Long Island) when you look online. These are not always announced outside the front door.
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Old 12-22-2008, 04:54 PM
 
1,290 posts, read 2,568,034 times
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The reason why a bunch of us fall into Catagory 3 is because Catagory 4 kinda sucks right now.

Maybe if you go back 30 years, Catagory 4 was alive and healthy. However, there are no nice 1100 sf ranches anymore. Back then you could buy one new, build up some equity living in a small house thats nice with 3 brs. Now, you can still buy the same house, for a boat load more, and the owner hasn't put a dime into it since they bought it. The "updated" (meaning they did the kitchen and bathroom sometime in the 80s) ones are in that 350-450 range.

Yes, us number 3s are feel the pain from our misguided decisions, buying a slightly nicer house than we really can afford. However, you can't be in Cat 4 anymore. To do that you have to be pulling in 200K+ and own a middle of the road house in Levittown. There is nothing wrong with either of those, the 200k or levitown. However, if I'm making 200K (which I'm not) I'm not living in a slightly updated 3br cape in levittown. Maybe I feel entitled, and I'm sure thats wrong, but I feel I should at least be able to buy as nice a house as the origional owners in levittown, before the 40 years of wear and tear. They were able to do that on 1 blue collar income. Now its hard to do it on 2 white collar incomes.....
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:20 PM
 
7,658 posts, read 11,106,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisk327 View Post
The reason why a bunch of us fall into Catagory 3 is because Catagory 4 kinda sucks right now.

Maybe if you go back 30 years, Catagory 4 was alive and healthy. However, there are no nice 1100 sf ranches anymore. Back then you could buy one new, build up some equity living in a small house thats nice with 3 brs. Now, you can still buy the same house, for a boat load more, and the owner hasn't put a dime into it since they bought it. The "updated" (meaning they did the kitchen and bathroom sometime in the 80s) ones are in that 350-450 range.

Yes, us number 3s are feel the pain from our misguided decisions, buying a slightly nicer house than we really can afford. However, you can't be in Cat 4 anymore. To do that you have to be pulling in 200K+ and own a middle of the road house in Levittown. There is nothing wrong with either of those, the 200k or levitown. However, if I'm making 200K (which I'm not) I'm not living in a slightly updated 3br cape in levittown. Maybe I feel entitled, and I'm sure thats wrong, but I feel I should at least be able to buy as nice a house as the origional owners in levittown, before the 40 years of wear and tear. They were able to do that on 1 blue collar income. Now its hard to do it on 2 white collar incomes.....

Good post.

My whole argument is based on the absence of new smaller construction housing stock on LI.

They make em upstate.
Ryan Homes - Riverton - Piedmont - W. Henrietta, NY

Im a Cat 4.I make more than my parents ever did (inflation adjusted)and still I'm in half the house.

Its a little tight but it would be ENORMOUS my Manhattan standards.
; )

We like to call it Cozy but we are saving for retirement,travelling and we own a few vehicular luxuries.

Not too bad.


Crooks
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:21 PM
 
Location: Stony Brook
1,205 posts, read 1,589,271 times
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i recently sold my 2500 sq foot "dream home" in medford, and moved into my 980 sq foot 2 bedroom ranch in centereach. i am quite comfotable here, along with some exta money in my pocket. this was one of the best decisicions i have made in a long time.
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Old 12-22-2008, 05:28 PM
 
Location: bay shore
518 posts, read 1,073,268 times
Reputation: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisk327 View Post
The reason why a bunch of us fall into Catagory 3 is because Catagory 4 kinda sucks right now.

Maybe if you go back 30 years, Catagory 4 was alive and healthy. However, there are no nice 1100 sf ranches anymore. Back then you could buy one new, build up some equity living in a small house thats nice with 3 brs. Now, you can still buy the same house, for a boat load more, and the owner hasn't put a dime into it since they bought it. The "updated" (meaning they did the kitchen and bathroom sometime in the 80s) ones are in that 350-450 range.

Yes, us number 3s are feel the pain from our misguided decisions, buying a slightly nicer house than we really can afford. However, you can't be in Cat 4 anymore. To do that you have to be pulling in 200K+ and own a middle of the road house in Levittown. There is nothing wrong with either of those, the 200k or levitown. However, if I'm making 200K (which I'm not) I'm not living in a slightly updated 3br cape in levittown. Maybe I feel entitled, and I'm sure thats wrong, but I feel I should at least be able to buy as nice a house as the origional owners in levittown, before the 40 years of wear and tear. They were able to do that on 1 blue collar income. Now its hard to do it on 2 white collar incomes.....
theres plenty of starter homes for 300k and under, and you sure as hell dont need a $200k income to afford a 250-300k house. thats the problem here, people still want to try to have the best, even if its a starter home. the whole IDEA of a STARTER home, is that its not going to be the best house, probably going to need updating and some work, and probably wont be in your favorite "upscale/rich" neigborhood. Youre right though, if i was making $200k a year i wouldnt be looking for something "slightly updated", nor would i be looking for a "starter home". the people making under 80K are the ones in the "starter home" market
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Old 12-22-2008, 06:53 PM
 
240 posts, read 641,014 times
Reputation: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crookhaven View Post
I just got back from a Three Village Class of Eightysomething get together.

It seems my remaining few(those not financially forced off the island)peers fall into 4 distinct camps.

1)The Trust Fund Wealthy and Blissfully Oblivious. Those N of 25a kids always had some coin

2)The Mole Men. Those priced out of the market and permanently subterannean.
(Basement apartments for life)

3)The McMansioned. Those desperatley trying to keep up with the Schwartzes despite the fact that they own nothing and are on the precipice of complete collapse. (AKA The just shoot me's)

4)The Forever Starters. Those living beneath their means in their 1100 SF Starter Ranches (beyond the 3V District) with a little bit left over to take their kids to Disney.(AKA the cozy confidents)

What Im curious about is what ever became of Group 4? Why are they the minority?

Why has our Housing stock completely drifted away from Levittown? Why are we eating up land at an alarming rate while bankrupting our working class or sending them off to the Carolinas or back to NYC?

Why have we lost our way?

Sobering times indeed.

crookhaven
My parents are a modified cat 4. They never planned on being in their "starter" house for 21 years, but after looking in more prestigious areas, and passing up my grandparents larger house in Setauket, they chose to renovate and enlarge our house from 1100 to 1500 sq feet. It's now top of the line with taxes at only 6k, and they can live life relatively free of financial worries. I have family members in 5000 sq ft homes, and after awhile the novelty is gone, and it doesnt seem any different than my own house.
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Old 12-22-2008, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Island of long
3,583 posts, read 6,057,364 times
Reputation: 1128
Crooks the Ryan homes you posted were priced right. That home on LI would be $400+ brand new. Thats what happened to the 1100 sq. ft. starter!
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