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Again, the discussion that this thread moved to is about salaries.
You cannot talk about cop salaries being to high without people like you (either a cop or very close to one) calling you a cop hater.
By the way, one of my best friends is a cop..was on NYPD for years, now out of state. He's underpaid, and was drastically underpaid for what he had to deal with at NYPD..a thankless job. Yes, I hate him.
To compare what he dealt with in relation to NCPD and SCPD? No one can honestly do that. NYPD themselves will tell you that. I guess they hate cops too!!
Simple fact: cops on LI are overpaid relative to the demand and qualifications for their positions.
If someone thinks that translates into hating cops, they are demented.
LIM's point was to argue that he wasn't a cop and that he had no vested interested in supporting cops, other than that he felt compelled to argue that they deserve their income.
You replied that he must be a cop.
This, again, is ad hominem. It is a sign of weakness in an argument. As soon as the point isn't working in your favor, you change the topic.
In a sense, this ad hominem is being used both as a straw argument and a red herring.
Cops are not hired to arbitrarily do their jobs. Sorry bud. Try to take a look at the world without the blue-shaded glasses on. I'm not saying it's easy..the paranoia sets in pretty quickly on some people who join the force
Here, you insist that he is a cop. You do so without evidence, and despite the fact that LIM has said he is not a cop. You are divining that he is a cop.
This only matters because it has nothing to do with whether cops deserve their pay.
Now, if you are admitting that the job, "isn't easy" then you open the door to them deserving a salary.
You've not provided any gauge to use to determine how much an officer should own.
No one here is saying cut police service... just stop giving them salary increases for a while. Maybe roll back some of their benefits. We have 30,000 applicants for 200 spots. I'm certain if total compensation were cut 20-30%, there would still be plenty of qualified applicants line up for these jobs.
If DMan admits that the work is hard, and we all know that the likelihood of dying as a cop is much greater than dying in the average American job, then perhaps there is needed extra incentive to hold that job.
I don't know how much extra incentive, but I do know that there is competition for these jobs.
Competition is a good thing, as it ostensibly creates an atmosphere in which people work harder and perform better. If you disagree with that assertion, please provide evidence to substantiate your point. I think my point stands to reason otherwise.
Now, if we cut their raises, we need to be given reason to believe that this won't reduce that competition that keeps their positions filled.
Here, you insist that he is a cop. You do so without evidence, and despite the fact that LIM has said he is not a cop. You are divining that he is a cop.
This only matters because it has nothing to do with whether cops deserve their pay.
Now, if you are admitting that the job, "isn't easy" then you open the door to them deserving a salary.
You've not provided any gauge to use to determine how much an officer should own.
We are puzzled by your arguments.
Just playing the game along with you guys. At least you can recognize it.
"LI cops pay does not match demand, qualifications, or precedent"
"You hate/dislike cops" (ad hominem)
And then when told this isn't the case, I'm told I hate cops again.
Answering "I think cops are worth every penny they are paid" is nothing but a random quibbling. There is no fact here to even support. It's just a person's opinion. When one says "cops on LI are overpaid compared to cops in other areas", that is a verifiable point, and plenty of evidence has been presented in 2 threads on this matter.
If DMan admits that the work is hard, and we all know that the likelihood of dying as a cop is much greater than dying in the average American job, then perhaps there is needed extra incentive to hold that job.
I don't know how much extra incentive, but I do know that there is competition for these jobs.
Competition is a good thing, as it ostensibly creates an atmosphere in which people work harder and perform better. If you disagree with that assertion, please provide evidence to substantiate your point. I think my point stands to reason otherwise.
Now, if we cut their raises, we need to be given reason to believe that this won't reduce that competition that keeps their positions filled.
Do you have evidence to support that?
I don't agree with anything you said here... but how much competition is necessary? Is it necessary to give the cops a compensation package which is so overly attractive as to have 30,000 people pay $100 to have a chance at one of 200 open positions??
Competition is good, and we don't want the SCPD and NCPD to have to take anyone who applies in order to police the streets... but we are nowhere near that. 30,000 people paying $100 is proof. If we had 10,000 people vying for one of 200 open positions, I think we could still find very high caliber applicants who are probably just as good as the ones we have now.
To me, this says reducing compensation is necessary as there is a far greater excess of qualified candidates than there are open positions.
Last edited by mikeyc4582; 01-08-2009 at 10:03 AM..
Reason: typo
I have a very hard time reading your posts with all of the quotes, commas, caps, etc. My basic premise is, by cutting police compensation you aren't cutting services - just the amount of money these same cops are getting for their service.
Maybe you haven't seen their compensation package, but here's a few bullet points in case you missed it:
NCPD top pay after 7 years - 117,000
SCPD top pay after 5 years - 98,000
The SCPD gets 6 weeks of vacation.
The SCPD gets an extra weekend day off every other week, leading to an extra 16 days off.
The SCPD gets 12 (I think) paid holidays. If they don't work, they still get paid. If they do work, they get time and a half for working, in addition to the pay they get for it being a holiday. In essence, they get paid double time and a half.
The SCPD gets 20ish (don't remember the exact number) sick days. Most of these cops don't take more than a few days off. When the cop retires, he gets half of his sick bank paid out at his current hourly rate. He also gets all of his vacation bank paid out at his current hourly rate.
The cops get free healthcare insurance. They do not have to contribute 1 penny.
The cops get a free pension. They are guaranteed a certain amount of money each month for the rest of their life. If the stock market totally tanks, it doesn't matter. We Suffolk County residents must fund the difference.
Believe me, cops should be paid well. They have a tough job and should be compensated appropriately. However, they are getting a 2009 salary and 1950 benefits - something has got to give!
If DMan admits that the work is hard, and we all know that the likelihood of dying as a cop is much greater than dying in the average American job, then perhaps there is needed extra incentive to hold that job.
I don't know how much extra incentive, but I do know that there is competition for these jobs.
Competition is a good thing, as it ostensibly creates an atmosphere in which people work harder and perform better. If you disagree with that assertion, please provide evidence to substantiate your point. I think my point stands to reason otherwise.
Now, if we cut their raises, we need to be given reason to believe that this won't reduce that competition that keeps their positions filled.
Do you have evidence to support that?
you make it sound like they work on commission...lol. There isn't any "competition" like in a private sector job. Have you ever heard of a Nassau/Suffolk County cop getting fired or laid off for performance issues? Only way these guys lose their job is for serious conduct violations. They graduate from the academy and, as long as they show up to work and remember to breathe (and manage not to sexually assault anyone with a plunger), they ride the gravy train until retirement.
Believe me, cops should be paid well. They have a tough job and should be compensated appropriately. However, they are getting a 2009 salary and 1950 benefits - something has got to give!
Are you nuts? It's hard work writing speeding tickets and chasing kids out of parking lots. Give them a raise!
I have a very hard time reading your posts with all of the quotes, commas, caps, etc. My basic premise is, by cutting police compensation you aren't cutting services - just the amount of money these same cops are getting for their service.
Maybe you haven't seen their compensation package, but here's a few bullet points in case you missed it:
NCPD top pay after 7 years - 117,000
SCPD top pay after 5 years - 98,000
The SCPD gets 6 weeks of vacation.
The SCPD gets an extra weekend day off every other week, leading to an extra 16 days off.
The SCPD gets 12 (I think) paid holidays. If they don't work, they still get paid. If they do work, they get time and a half for working, in addition to the pay they get for it being a holiday. In essence, they get paid double time and a half.
The SCPD gets 20ish (don't remember the exact number) sick days. Most of these cops don't take more than a few days off. When the cop retires, he gets half of his sick bank paid out at his current hourly rate. He also gets all of his vacation bank paid out at his current hourly rate.
The cops get free healthcare insurance. They do not have to contribute 1 penny.
The cops get a free pension. They are guaranteed a certain amount of money each month for the rest of their life. If the stock market totally tanks, it doesn't matter. We Suffolk County residents must fund the difference.
Believe me, cops should be paid well. They have a tough job and should be compensated appropriately. However, they are getting a 2009 salary and 1950 benefits - something has got to give!
Do you think that someone fighting with such persistence against all logic DOESN'T know the compensation? Of course they do.
Anyone who answers this way is one of 4 people:
1) a cop
2) a wanna be cop
3) a spouse or other kind of relative of a cop
4) aloof to the current economic climate
There's no way in hell that something can honestly think the cops in Nassau and Suffolk are worth what we pay them given the market dynamics.
I can love Ford Mustangs more than anyone. They could be my ultimate car and I'd pay anything for them. However, if they cost $50,000 and in my opinion is that they are worth it... that doesn't mean the car isn't overpriced. It just simply means I'm letting an emotional side of me overtake the rational side and drown out the economics of the situation.
Last edited by mikeyc4582; 01-08-2009 at 10:15 AM..
Reason: typo
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Ad hominem...again!
