Police Warning for Ice on the Sidewalk?!? (New York, Garden City: credit report, home)

[dman72]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

You didn't do what I asked. Name a cop who gets paid like a CEO. You just told me that cops, on average, make over $100,000 per year. Their starting salaries are $57,000. Hmmm.

I got from you some speculation about what an executive makes in a small to medium company on LI. The difference is yawning. Are you telling me that CEOs don't get retirement packages or severance? That cop pensions are better than, say, stock options? Hmmm.

The average cop is a bagel peddler? I didn't know that either. I know some pretty intelligent cops. Hmmm. It's too bad that all your cops are so dumb, and can only make bagels. My cops are pretty bright, and compassionate.

I don't think you've made a convincing case at all.

First thing, I said an executive, not CEO. Go back a read a little more. There are different levels of these things I called "executives". Have you ever worked in a business environment?

Secondly, you need to tidy up on your facts and your math, because you're not very good with either.

SCPD makes 90K base after 5 years, easily going over 100K with any overtime or holiday differential, etc. Even the guys making 57K to start get close to 100K with the overtime that is available. Then, you factor in free medical, 6 wks vacation, etc.

Very few companies have pensions anymore. Most have 401K, which you have to PAY into, and sometimes you're company matches up to a certain point, but it's usually less than 50% for the first 2-5%, and of course, we all know how much you can lose in that 401K when things go bad.

What does NCPD and SCPD put towards their pensions? I can tell you that whatever paltry amount it might be, it doesn't come close to equaling what they are paid out, considering that they are paid 50% of their last 3 years salary for the rest of their lives, with free medical. That's means that a guy who averages, say, 110K his last 2 years (low compared to what many guys are pulling) is getting 55K plus free medical for the rest of his life..after 20 years. That's about $62,200 per year for life total compensation. I don't know many people who are getting that kind of return on their 401K. Maybe if you managed to put away 1.5 million dollars in that 401K, which very few people on LI could ever hope of coming close to doing.

Stock options have risk related to them..if the company doesn't do well they can be worth next to nothing. A cops pension is guaranteed.

A severance package is something you get when you are fired or laid off, which in a business environment will happen if the owners have a bad month. I think the procedure for canning a cop is a litter more difficult.

Anyway, you need to go back and brush up on your facts before you start making arguments. Maybe your family member who is a cop can help you out. They are well aware how much they are hosing the average LI'er.

That 57K is a base salary. Base. That's if they only work their scheduled (181) days and their shift NEVER falls on a holiday.

I didn't SAY that all cops were bagel peddlers, I said that cops I know were working at delis, bagel stores, working as security guards at Macy's, etc, and maybe taking a few classes at SCC in criminal justice before getting on the force. That's a fact, it's not an insult to them. That's why it's called a "lottery ticket". I remember them saying to me, "hey, you should take the test, it's a great job." I didn't really want to be a cop, and I was going to graduate a 4 year college, so it wasn't what I did. If I knew then what the compensation package was, I might have taken the test. Bottom line is, LI taxpayers are getting hosed to make these guys well off.

[I_Love_LI_but]

dman,

Yes, just like working as a temp USED TO be higher paying than being a permanent employee, the public sector USED to pay significantly less than the private sector but offer better job security and in many cases more comprehensive benefits. Now it has all gone topsy turvy and the "suckers" are the ones working in private industry rather than the ones feeding at the public trough.

I gotta mention one thing though. I think on LI we need to redefine what an "outrageous" salary is according to the cost of living here on Long Island. If someone earning $110K wanted to buy a house on Long Island, what size mortgage do you think s/he would qualify for? Probably not much compared to the cost of buying a home on LI. $110K may be wonderful in other parts of the country, but here? Perhaps the cops are not OVERPAID, but the rest of the LI "suckers" are UNDERPAID.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

dman,

Yes, just like working as a temp USED TO be higher paying than being a permanent employee, the public sector USED to pay significantly less than the private sector but offer better job security and in many cases more comprehensive benefits. Now it has all gone topsy turvy and the "suckers" are the ones working in private industry rather than the ones feeding at the public trough.

I gotta mention one thing though. I think on LI we need to redefine what an "outrageous" salary is according to the cost of living here on Long Island. If someone earning $110K wanted to buy a house on Long Island, what size mortgage do you think s/he would qualify for? Probably not much compared to the cost of buying a home on LI. $110K may be wonderful in other parts of the country, but here? Perhaps the cops are not OVERPAID, but the rest of us "suckers" are UNDERPAID.

According to a basic calculation many real estate agents use, approx 330K. You can get something here for that much..it won't be a lot..oh, and don't cops get lower mortgage rates? That also means that half the people on LI couldn't afford to buy a home here if they didn't already own one.

Taxes are what make LI unaffordable. An $8000 tax bill as opposed to $2500 makes a big difference month to month in what kind of mortgage you can afford.

A cop is making 110K ON ONE SALARY. That's more than the average household income on LI by a long shot....and how many households on LI have people working 2 full time jobs?

Many of the cops wives don't work or work part-time. Now, their schedules are weird, I'll give you that, but I know NYPD who live out here who have the same f'd up schedules and make a fraction of what SCPD makes. They are, of course, all trying to get on SCPD or NCPD, and who can blame them.

This isn't about all cops being overcompensated, it's about SCPD and NCPD being overcompensated with taxpayer money. NYPD are living with mom and dad to afford LI. That isn't acceptable, to me, but I don't pay taxes to support their salaries.

SCPD is making enough that their wives don't have to work to afford a home here. I don't know if that is acceptable either considering how much people on LI have to work to clear their mortgages and taxes.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by dman72

That also means that half the people on LI couldn't afford to buy a home here if they didn't already own one.

Welcome to the land of the haves and have nots! Also consider how many households have both taxpaying husband and wife working full-time who cannot afford their first home, so if you already own a home, there are many worse off than you. And people wonder why, with the decline of the liar loans (oops, I mean stated income loans), that homes just aren't selling well these days. With these economics, I can see how people are bitter about their tax dollars paying higher salaries to LI police than what they themselves earn, when the cost of living here is far outpacing the earning power of those in private industry who are footing the bill for the public servants.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by dman72

First thing, I said an executive, not CEO. Go back a read a little more. There are different levels of these things I called "executives". Have you ever worked in a business environment?

Secondly, you need to tidy up on your facts and your math, because you're not very good with either.

SCPD makes 90K base after 5 years, easily going over 100K with any overtime or holiday differential, etc. Even the guys making 57K to start get close to 100K with the overtime that is available. Then, you factor in free medical, 6 wks vacation, etc.

Very few companies have pensions anymore. Most have 401K, which you have to PAY into, and sometimes you're company matches up to a certain point, but it's usually less than 50% for the first 2-5%, and of course, we all know how much you can lose in that 401K when things go bad.

What does NCPD and SCPD put towards their pensions? I can tell you that whatever paltry amount it might be, it doesn't come close to equaling what they are paid out, considering that they are paid 50% of their last 3 years salary for the rest of their lives, with free medical. That's means that a guy who averages, say, 110K his last 2 years (low compared to what many guys are pulling) is getting 55K plus free medical for the rest of his life..after 20 years. That's about $62,200 per year for life total compensation. I don't know many people who are getting that kind of return on their 401K. Maybe if you managed to put away 1.5 million dollars in that 401K, which very few people on LI could ever hope of coming close to doing.

Stock options have risk related to them..if the company doesn't do well they can be worth next to nothing. A cops pension is guaranteed.

A severance package is something you get when you are fired or laid off, which in a business environment will happen if the owners have a bad month. I think the procedure for canning a cop is a litter more difficult.

Anyway, you need to go back and brush up on your facts before you start making arguments. Maybe your family member who is a cop can help you out. They are well aware how much they are hosing the average LI'er.

That 57K is a base salary. Base. That's if they only work their scheduled (181) days and their shift NEVER falls on a holiday.

I didn't SAY that all cops were bagel peddlers, I said that cops I know were working at delis, bagel stores, working as security guards at Macy's, etc, and maybe taking a few classes at SCC in criminal justice before getting on the force. That's a fact, it's not an insult to them. That's why it's called a "lottery ticket". I remember them saying to me, "hey, you should take the test, it's a great job." I didn't really want to be a cop, and I was going to graduate a 4 year college, so it wasn't what I did. If I knew then what the compensation package was, I might have taken the test. Bottom line is, LI taxpayers are getting hosed to make these guys well off.

Your blustery manner will not help you, unless the question being debated is, "Who is angrier?!" That, I'll just concede. As for the point I thought we were arguing, you lose.

First, I asked you to compare cop pay with CEO pay. You chose to change the argument to "executive." Operationalize that any way that you wish - they don't earn anything like cops. But choose to define it as you wish, and then pull numbers from thin air to further support your points.

If the benefits of being a cop weren't outweighed by the benefits of earning as an executive, people would be dropping out of college to be cops. They may be. I have a graduate students who has decided to be a cop - but that's not consistent with your juvenile assertion that they are all toothless bagel mongers.

When you are an executive, in many cases you are PAID with stock options or other forms of ownership. While you may not get that "plum" promise of 50% of salary for life, you may live like my 36 year old retired friend who owns condos in San Diego and Milan (that's in Italy). Too bad he passed up his chance to take your calls about noises in the yard.

Now, you were the one who asserted without support that the average cop in SC makes much more than $100,000/year. You offered no support for that. However, if the starting salary is just over half that, I doubt that the average is well above $100,000, especially given the incentive for early retirement. But I'm sure you will disagree and make that clear in your own little manner.

My friend on Wall Street doesn't get free medical. You are right. He's an "executive" for a small brokerage firm. He pays for his own medical, and still has money left over to spend 3 months in Egypt each year - I suppose that means he gives himself more than 6 weeks vacation. Then again, maybe he's just working out there.

As for pensions, law now states that pensions must be fully funded. States and private enterprises have time to comply, but comply they will.

No, you didn't say that all cops were bagel peddlers, but you quite clearly implied that the compensation was much too high for the ostensible quality of the Macy's rent-a-cops filling these positions. That has rhetorical strength and you can't run away from it now. Sorry.

But you make enough of a case to quiet yourself when you state that people as intelligent and as gifted as you would have considered being a cop if you had known what the compensation was. Isn't that the way we want it? Wouldn't we all be better off if intellectual elites like you were patrolling our neighborhoods. Golly - I'd feel safer!

[mikeyc4582]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

dman,

Yes, just like working as a temp USED TO be higher paying than being a permanent employee, the public sector USED to pay significantly less than the private sector but offer better job security and in many cases more comprehensive benefits. Now it has all gone topsy turvy and the "suckers" are the ones working in private industry rather than the ones feeding at the public trough.

It has all gone topsy turvy is not an excuse to call private sector workers suckers and just forget about it. We private sector workers pay your salaries. If we aren't making a premium because of the nature of our work and the less benefits and lack of job security, that excess income and therefore tax dollars isn't there to support public sector employee salaries. Something has got to give.

And let's be real here. Cops start at 57,000 after the academy (which I believe is 6 months or so). They need minimal to no college experiece. So they automatically start earning their living 2 years before everyone else. Then after 5 years they are making top pay, 98,000. I can assure you, there's no college graduates with 3 years of experience that are making a base pay of 98,000 with free medical and pension and all that vacation time and job security. Now you add in basic overtime and working days that fall on holidays, and a cop is making 120-130k pretty easily. Keep in mind, the cop is only on the job 5 years, so is still in their 20's. That's some damn good money. I'll give you the point that the cop won't go much higher than that unless they work a lot of overtime... but most private sector employees don't even have the ability to earn overtime!!

Another thing to keep in mind... most executives of companies are in their late 40's and 50's. By the time, most cops are either retired and collecting a sweet pension, or are still working and have made a boatload of money starting in their mid to late 20's through this time.

Yes, a cop making 130,000 isn't extreme on it's face. But when you realize any cop with 5 years experience (and therefore in their 20's or early 30's) is making this much every year and you compare that to most private sector workers who don't get that much at the same age... and you see there is a major disconnect.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by dman72

According to a basic calculation many real estate agents use, approx 330K. You can get something here for that much..it won't be a lot..oh, and don't cops get lower mortgage rates? That also means that half the people on LI couldn't afford to buy a home here if they didn't already own one.

Taxes are what make LI unaffordable. An $8000 tax bill as opposed to $2500 makes a big difference month to month in what kind of mortgage you can afford.

A cop is making 110K ON ONE SALARY. That's more than the average household income on LI by a long shot....and how many households on LI have people working 2 full time jobs?

Many of the cops wives don't work or work part-time. Now, their schedules are weird, I'll give you that, but I know NYPD who live out here who have the same f'd up schedules and make a fraction of what SCPD makes. They are, of course, all trying to get on SCPD or NCPD, and who can blame them.

This isn't about all cops being overcompensated, it's about SCPD and NCPD being overcompensated with taxpayer money. NYPD are living with mom and dad to afford LI. That isn't acceptable, to me, but I don't pay taxes to support their salaries.

SCPD is making enough that their wives don't have to work to afford a home here. I don't know if that is acceptable either considering how much people on LI have to work to clear their mortgages and taxes.

Depending on the quality of the following source, the median household income in Nassau and Suffolk counties is much more than half that number. That suggests that the average is well above the median - as it typically is. One can't make less than $0, but one can and many do make far in excess of $80,000 (for instance). This fact skews the average high.

Long Island - Federal Reserve Bank of New York

So, sorry. But I will admit that your point seems much more compelling when you make things up!

[dman72]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

Your blustery manner will not help you, unless the question being debated is, "Who is angrier?!" That, I'll just concede. As for the point I thought we were arguing, you lose.

First, I asked you to compare cop pay with CEO pay. You chose to change the argument to "executive." Operationalize that any way that you wish - they don't earn anything like cops. But choose to define it as you wish, and then pull numbers from thin air to further support your points.

I never said a cop made what a CEO makes, so I don't need to defend the idea.


??? What school of logic did you graduate from? I need to defend positions I never took? Bye bye.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by mikeyc4582

It has all gone topsy turvy is not an excuse to call private sector workers suckers and just forget about it. We private sector workers pay your salaries.

Whoa! Hold on! I'm a sucker in the private sector too!

Originally Posted by mikeyc4582

If we aren't making a premium because of the nature of our work and the less benefits and lack of job security, that excess income and therefore tax dollars isn't there to support public sector employee salaries. Something has got to give.

That is true, but what will give? It always seems to be the middle class taxpayer who gives.

Originally Posted by mikeyc4582

most private sector employees don't even have the ability to earn overtime!!

Very true! And dear old Bushie made sure to sign a new law to make it even harder for private sector workers to earn overtime. You go Bushie! Make sure your base, the "haves" and the "have mores," don't have to pay OT!

Originally Posted by mikeyc4582

Yes, a cop making 130,000 isn't extreme on it's face. But when you realize any cop with 5 years experience (and therefore in their 20's or early 30's) is making this much every year and you compare that to most private sector workers who don't get that much at the same age... and you see there is a major disconnect.

I agree there is a major disconnect which is all to the disadvantage of the middle class taxpayer.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by dman72

I never said a cop made what a CEO makes, so I don't need to defend the idea.


??? What school of logic did you graduate from? I need to defend positions I never took? Bye bye.

After all, you won't define an executive. What the hell is an executive? You can operationalize a CEO - as it is a title someone in a small LLC can hold. An "executive" at the local tanning salon or dance studio. I'm not talking about Trump, here.

I didn't expect you to clarify.