Mount Sinai, NY (Brookhaven, Ronkonkoma, Miller Place: buying a home, water heater, neighborhoods)

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by flowergarden

Mt. Sinai schools are on par with Ward Melville and Half-Hallow and score higher than Miller Place. On paper they do "look" good. They could be better though.

I disagree with larger being better. I think there is real opportunity in Mt. Sinai for the parents to bring these issues to the school board and change their approach. I think that it is difficult for someone who is in the district for a long time to "see" the areas that could be improved. They are so intergrated into the "how we've always done it" syndrome or so invested in the "we are great" attitude that sometimes it takes an outsider to bring new ideas to their attention. I guess time will tell.

Remember preception is reality.

Mt Sinai schools are regarded as good....very good but the taxes are woefully unattractive.

However HH/3V/Port Jefferson/Miller Place Schools are regarded as great.

If they merged Mt Sinai through Shoreham Id say that'd still be a very competitve district.
Conversely PatMed through Wm Floyd....not so much.
Either way I bet we could achieve similar results for less.

crooks

[flowergarden]

Originally Posted by Crookhaven

Remember preception is reality.

Mt Sinai schools are regarded as good....very good but the taxes are woefully unattractive.

However HH/3V/Port Jefferson/Miller Place Schools are regarded as great.

If they merged Mt Sinai through Shoreham Id say that'd still be a very competitve district.
Conversely PatMed through Wm Floyd....not so much.
Either way I bet we could achieve similar results for less.

crooks

You definetly know these areas better than I do. This is the part I just don't "get". HH/3V/PJ are perceived as great. Mt. Sinai as good. Their numbers are the same. Mt. Sinai SAT scores are a bit lower. I see this as Mt. Sinai having more "average" kids enrolled and 3V having more kids in the "above average" area enrolled b/c the demographics of their parents. However, with a shift in attitude within the district, Mt. Sinai could have those numbers too. The whole perception thing is kind of like the government saying over and over some piece of information that at some point becomes part of "the common knowledge" but in reality has no basis in truth or reality. I think that the whole 3V/HH/PJ mystique is similar; if enough people say it over and over again, it becomes "true" even though it's based on nothing other than people repeating it to themselves and others.

I'm new to the area and recognize that I don't understand or know alot about the history. As an outsider looking inside, and now living inside, I just don't see the difference.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by flowergarden

You definetly know these areas better than I do. This is the part I just don't "get". HH/3V/PJ are perceived as great. Mt. Sinai as good. Their numbers are the same. Mt. Sinai SAT scores are a bit lower. I see this as Mt. Sinai having more "average" kids enrolled and 3V having more kids in the "above average" area enrolled b/c the demographics of their parents. However, with a shift in attitude within the district, Mt. Sinai could have those numbers too. The whole perception thing is kind of like the government saying over and over some piece of information that at some point becomes part of "the common knowledge" but in reality has no basis in truth or reality. I think that the whole 3V/HH/PJ mystique is similar; if enough people say it over and over again, it becomes "true" even though it's based on nothing other than people repeating it to themselves and others.

I'm new to the area and recognize that I don't understand or know alot about the history. As an outsider looking inside, and now living inside, I just don't see the difference.

Mt Sinai is a very good district.

Perhaps it the PR from the Westinghouse/Intel grads that gets 3v the good press.

Perhaps its just a real estate ploy.

crooks

[AES888]

First off thank you to everyone for the posts......



FlowerGarden

I agree 100 % with you...we knew what were getting into with regard to the taxes and it is a decision we made based on the quality of life we expected to obtain living here. We were willing to pay them for the excellent schools and like you said the beautiful "new" homes that did not require a gut renovation or expansion in order to live comfortably in them. We feel we are getting what we are paying for and are very happy with our decision to move here.

Yes, we looked in Dix Hills, yes, we looked in Smithtown and Nesconset, but bang for the buck, this area is in a league of its own. Those areas are lovely, but the homes are much older and taxes for the size of home we were looking at were not that much lower than what we have here in Mount Sinai, and the homes needed $$$ to renovate and update. To us, these new developments and homes in Mount Sinai are beautiful and as stupid as it may seem, they drew us in. I am sure to many others (especially those that remember the days of the peach farms), they look at these developments and are disgusted...to each his own I guess.

I feel that inevitably when speaking with people about this area, even if I never mention it, they ALWAYS bring up the taxes...TAXES...TAXES. I feel that most people that move here realize what the taxes are, can afford them and are willing to pay them, so I wish people would stop bringing them up. They are what they are and we have accepted them. Classic example, when I posted my original question about the schools the conversation immediately turned to the TAXES. I am not complaining and actually thank everyone for taking the time to post. I am just using this as an example.

Back to the schools, I understand what you are saying about the regents curriculum and how that deters our children from competition/preparation for the global market. However, this is an issue dating back even to the days that I was in high school, I am 31 years old so it's not that long ago : ) I lived in Queens, New York my entire life and went to one of the “specialized” schools (Townsend Harris). It was a top notch school with an advanced curriculum but even back then they would say that we are not competing with Asian or European school curriculums...so tell me what has changed in the last 15 years? Nothing. At the end of the day school boards and teachers will always compare themselves to other school boards in their areas. And if they are at the top of the list, they are doing their jobs. I am sure they understand the facts about us being second or third to other countries, but why do they need to address this issue. In fact, can we as parents change this? Sorry to be a pessimist, but I do not believe we can.

Let’s not kid ourselves, the Mount Sinai school district is excellent; that’s one of the reasons we chose to live here. Comparing test scores throughout Long Island’s various districts proves this. Can you tell me how old your children are and how they have adapted to the schools? I assume based on your post that they transferred here. How was that transition? Do they enjoy school or participate in any after school activities? Are you happy with the decision to move here?

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post…….

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by AES888

First off thank you to everyone for the posts......



FlowerGarden

I agree 100 % with you...we knew what were getting into with regard to the taxes and it is a decision we made based on the quality of life we expected to obtain living here. We were willing to pay them for the excellent schools and like you said the beautiful "new" homes that did not require a gut renovation or expansion in order to live comfortably in them. We feel we are getting what we are paying for and are very happy with our decision to move here.

Yes, we looked in Dix Hills, yes, we looked in Smithtown and Nesconset, but bang for the buck, this area is in a league of its own. Those areas are lovely, but the homes are much older and taxes for the size of home we were looking at were not that much lower than what we have here in Mount Sinai, and the homes needed $$$ to renovate and update. To us, these new developments and homes in Mount Sinai are beautiful and as stupid as it may seem, they drew us in. I am sure to many others (especially those that remember the days of the peach farms), they look at these developments and are disgusted...to each his own I guess.

I feel that inevitably when speaking with people about this area, even if I never mention it, they ALWAYS bring up the taxes...TAXES...TAXES. I feel that most people that move here realize what the taxes are, can afford them and are willing to pay them, so I wish people would stop bringing them up. They are what they are and we have accepted them. Classic example, when I posted my original question about the schools the conversation immediately turned to the TAXES. I am not complaining and actually thank everyone for taking the time to post. I am just using this as an example.

Back to the schools, I understand what you are saying about the regents curriculum and how that deters our children from competition/preparation for the global market. However, this is an issue dating back even to the days that I was in high school, I am 31 years old so it's not that long ago : ) I lived in Queens, New York my entire life and went to one of the “specialized” schools (Townsend Harris). It was a top notch school with an advanced curriculum but even back then they would say that we are not competing with Asian or European school curriculums...so tell me what has changed in the last 15 years? Nothing. At the end of the day school boards and teachers will always compare themselves to other school boards in their areas. And if they are at the top of the list, they are doing their jobs. I am sure they understand the facts about us being second or third to other countries, but why do they need to address this issue. In fact, can we as parents change this? Sorry to be a pessimist, but I do not believe we can.

Let’s not kid ourselves, the Mount Sinai school district is excellent; that’s one of the reasons we chose to live here. Comparing test scores throughout Long Island’s various districts proves this. Can you tell me how old your children are and how they have adapted to the schools? I assume based on your post that they transferred here. How was that transition? Do they enjoy school or participate in any after school activities? Are you happy with the decision to move here?

Thanks to everyone for taking the time to post…….

Good Post.

Good Schools.

Im just surprised that 3V, Port Jefferson and Miller Place were off your radar.

All three are a much better value play tax wise with similar housing stock and arguably superior schools.

Out of curiosity, what drew you to Mt Sinai other than the schools?

crooks

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Crookhaven

Good Post.

Good Schools.

Im just surprised that 3V, Port Jefferson and Miller Place were off your radar.

All three are a much better value play tax wise with similar housing stock and arguably superior schools.

Out of curiosity, what drew you to Mt Sinai other than the schools?

crooks

I think the poster said something about houses that didn't need renovation. I'm interpreting that they wanted a less than 5 year old McMansion, which is hard to come by in the other districts you mentioned. If you want a big house with a master suite and 3 bathrooms, they built a few hundred of them in Mt. Sinai.

[StephM]

Originally Posted by Crookhaven

Good Post.

Good Schools.

Im just surprised that 3V, Port Jefferson and Miller Place were off your radar.

All three are a much better value play tax wise with similar housing stock and arguably superior schools.

Out of curiosity, what drew you to Mt Sinai other than the schools?

crooks

ITA! I'm assuming that for a "new" house the posters spent well over the 600k mark. I'm surprised that Port Jefferson schools weren't on the list, it was my understanding that they are comparable to Half Hollow Hills or Cold Spring Harbor? And the taxes are much lower than the new McMansions in Mt. Sinai. You get a nice downtown and village amenities too.

[flowergarden]

Everyone has their own criteria for what is important. We have three kids, two of which are teenagers. We uprooted our kids for job purposes from the home they grew up in and their "lifelong" friends. We felt we needed to offer them something at least as good, if not better than what we had if we were going to up root them from their home. This is what we found:

HHH area - 4 BR 2.5 bath 2400 Sq ft taxes at about $10K in need of total renovation or ability to live with the "old" look for $750,000. In addition the majority of kids empty out to full time summer camp, so no one for my kids to play with in summer. Middle Island location so no beach community or anything more than the suburbs to offer our family.

Stony Brook/E. Setauket area - 4 BR 2.5 bath 2500 sq ft, about 700K with about 11 to 12K in taxes but old and worn in need of 100K of renovations. One house literally had a termite nest in the illegal 2nd kitchen that looked like it was built in 1945. Great schools, but only if you go to one of the middle schools, not the other. We walked around the high school and saw that due to over crowding the teachers do not own their classrooms. The High school is huge and on a 10 period schedule to accomodate the over crowding. Classrooms were not decorated; they were a bunch of cinder block rooms filled with desks. Nothing of the walls. Very sterile with old, very old science facilities. The Intel winners are a group of 30 kids and one highly motivated teacher that really puts in extra effort. Great for the 30, what about the 31st kid? The environment was just not what we were looking for. Great numbers, great rep, no creativity, nothing outstanding.

Port Jeff - Great school rep, but a bit too small for new kids. Plus, for us, the commute up into Port Jeff rather than out to Mt. Sinai added a good 15 minutes to my husband's already too long commute.

Mt. Sinai - 11 year old, 5 BR 3 bath, 3100 sq ft, unfinished basement, pool, fenced yard, no need for massive renovations, near the beach, good schools with new facilities, great summer activities for kids. all for well under 650K. The difference in the house price (and value) did more than balance out the higher taxes. We did look at the "McMansions" - I assume you mean the Pulte or Hamlet communities, but we settled on something north of 25A in a small unique development. Each house was built by the homeowner - no everything looks the same theme. Not that there is anything wrong with the Pulte communities, but Mt. Sinai has much to offer besides just those two communities. To each his own.

As to competing in a global market, I do think that our schools should compare themselves globally. However, closer to home, my kids will compete with other American kids for limited spots at pretty competative schools. They will need to score very high on their SAT's and do well on AP tests. I think Mt. Sinai should prepare them to do that. As I stated earlier, I see room for improvement.

Well, Happy New Year everyone.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by dman72

I think the poster said something about houses that didn't need renovation. I'm interpreting that they wanted a less than 5 year old McMansion, which is hard to come by in the other districts you mentioned. If you want a big house with a master suite and 3 bathrooms, they built a few hundred of them in Mt. Sinai.

Good point.

Less than 5 you may be correct.Mt Sinai is McMansion heaven.

Theres certainly no shortage of McMansion and Fauxtorians in Miller Place or 3v either.


Best

crooks

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by flowergarden

Everyone has their own criteria for what is important. We have three kids, two of which are teenagers. We uprooted our kids for job purposes from the home they grew up in and their "lifelong" friends. We felt we needed to offer them something at least as good, if not better than what we had if we were going to up root them from their home. This is what we found:

HHH area - 4 BR 2.5 bath 2400 Sq ft taxes at about $10K in need of total renovation or ability to live with the "old" look for $750,000. In addition the majority of kids empty out to full time summer camp, so no one for my kids to play with in summer. Middle Island location so no beach community or anything more than the suburbs to offer our family.

Stony Brook/E. Setauket area - 4 BR 2.5 bath 2500 sq ft, about 700K with about 11 to 12K in taxes but old and worn in need of 100K of renovations. One house literally had a termite nest in the illegal 2nd kitchen that looked like it was built in 1945. Great schools, but only if you go to one of the middle schools, not the other. We walked around the high school and saw that due to over crowding the teachers do not own their classrooms. The High school is huge and on a 10 period schedule to accomodate the over crowding. Classrooms were not decorated; they were a bunch of cinder block rooms filled with desks. Nothing of the walls. Very sterile with old, very old science facilities. The Intel winners are a group of 30 kids and one highly motivated teacher that really puts in extra effort. Great for the 30, what about the 31st kid? The environment was just not what we were looking for. Great numbers, great rep, no creativity, nothing outstanding.

Port Jeff - Great school rep, but a bit too small for new kids. Plus, for us, the commute up into Port Jeff rather than out to Mt. Sinai added a good 15 minutes to my husband's already too long commute.

Mt. Sinai - 11 year old, 5 BR 3 bath, 3100 sq ft, unfinished basement, pool, fenced yard, no need for massive renovations, near the beach, good schools with new facilities, great summer activities for kids. all for well under 650K. The difference in the house price (and value) did more than balance out the higher taxes. We did look at the "McMansions" - I assume you mean the Pulte or Hamlet communities, but we settled on something north of 25A in a small unique development. Each house was built by the homeowner - no everything looks the same theme. Not that there is anything wrong with the Pulte communities, but Mt. Sinai has much to offer besides just those two communities. To each his own.

As to competing in a global market, I do think that our schools should compare themselves globally. However, closer to home, my kids will compete with other American kids for limited spots at pretty competative schools. They will need to score very high on their SAT's and do well on AP tests. I think Mt. Sinai should prepare them to do that. As I stated earlier, I see room for improvement.

Well, Happy New Year everyone.

I agree.
Thanks for the insight,

Sounds like a shrewd buy.

Welcome to the area.

Happy New Year

crooks