Landlord Sueing for illegal Rent; Counter Claims? (attorney, landlords)

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Azelyn

like i said before... we cant 'just move'. its not that simple to find a decent suitable place that fits our budget and allows cats. I got laid off, its not like i can just relocate anywhere i please. if only it were that easy.

Sorry to hear you just got laid off. Talk about bad timing! I know of a RE lady who works in Suffolk who specializes in pet friendly rentals. If you are interested, I can try and find her info and send it to you in a PM. She is smart and of good character and does not represent illegal rentals.

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by omigawd

As a "property manager", I am assuming you're a manager of LEGAL apartments..... You really don't know much about illegal apartments or the law that protects tenants in these situations.

I was thinking the same thing ...

[I_Love_LI_but]

When You Go to Court
When the judge asks you why you did not pay December and January's rent do not go into all the gory details of noise, arguments, lack of heating, etc. Simply tell him/her you did not pay the rent because the home was inspected and the inspector told you it was an illegal apartment and told you not to pay any more rent to the landlady. Show him the Certificate of Occupancy that states the address is a single family dwelling. Your most rock solid argument is that the apartment is illegal and not allowed to be rented so you were directed not to pay rent by the authorities and therefore do not owe her anything.

Counterclaim
Since you do not have a written lease, I re-thought things and I think it is unlikely that you will be able to get some of the things I previously mentioned that are contingent on "the remainder of the lease."

What I think you can get is the following:

The return of your entire security deposit (provided the landlady cannot prove you damaged the apartment)

Moving expenses (the reason you have to move is the apartment is illegal and that is the landlady's fault, not yours)

Storage expenses (if you have to put things in storage temporarily, the reason you have to do so is the apartment is illegal and that is the landlady's fault, not yours)

Realtor fee to find new (legal) apartment (the reason you might have to hire a realtor is the apartment is illegal and that is the landlady's fault, not yours)

See how it all ties together?

The apartment is illegal so you do not owe the landlady any compensation, plus you are suffering financial losses since you have to suddenly vacate the apartment because it is illegal and cannot be rented, so therefore you are the aggrieved party, not the landlady, and furthermore, as a direct result of her breaking the law, she owes YOU compensation.

Good luck!

[I_Love_LI_but]

Sorry that your first apartment was a disaster! Here are some tips for the future:

Don't badmouth the landlady or your old apartment when meeting with a prospective new landlord. Yes, really, even if everything you say is the truth, it doesn't look good. If you are asked why did you move, simply say the authorities inspected the home and told you it was an illegal apartment and that you must move out.

Hearing noise from other tenants is a fact of life in a multi-family dwelling. Yes, I understand from your OP that there was unreasonable noise. However, especially if you have only lived in a single-family home all your life and have not experienced it before, you need to know that unless the next place you rent has been professionally sound-proofed (and I doubt that unless you are headed for a luxury building in Manhattan), you may hear the noises of other tenants (walking, shower running, toilet flushing, etc.). So just understand that hearing other people's noise is a common quality of life issue in multi-family dwellings and people have to put up with it. The only "cure" for this is to move into your own single-family dwelling.

[I_Love_LI_but]

When you are in court, ask the judge to explain to the landland that neither she nor the Suffolk County Police Department is authorized to remove you from the apartment and only the Sheriff's Dept. is, and the penalties for her trying to do it herself. She sounds really ignorant, so I am sure she needs this advice, plus it could save you some stress if she is headed off at the pass before she tries a "do it yourself" removal.

[AndreaII]

Interesting, extremely long thread. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents to see people's opinions -

What if the landlord claims in court that she's sharing expenses with these tenants to run the house? Obviously the LL lives there, she owns the place, and is not an absentee LL (or perhaps she is renting the house too and unknown to the real LL has moved in these two possibly illegal tenants - a remote possibility, but nevertheless happens in the real world). Isn't the law different for sharing houses than for a regular rental where there is no LL on the premises? This LL could claim that she's just sharing the house. There is no written lease involved, it's just one party's word against another. Would really like to get all your opinions on this.

Best thing for the OP to have done in the beginning would have been to move out of there pronto. And for next time before moving into another apartment/house, do a much better job interviewing the LL and finding out about all the inhabitants of the place and the condition of the premises. Don't ever take anyone's word for anything. People lie all the time. Drive by the house, park in front of it for a while and see what actually goes on. Go there in the middle of the night and see what does or does not transpire. It's like doing the same thing a good LL would do - they check up on their potential tenants to weed out trouble whenever possible - and you as a tenant need to do the same thing regarding LL's, premises, etc.

Also, for the future, perhaps renting a PO box at the local post office would help with the mail situation.

Best thing to the OP to do is stop being lazy and get out of there ASAP; all their excuses are going to land them right in the middle of an eviction if they're not out. Worst comes to worst they can put their stuff in storage and move in with friends or family temporarily (and I mean literally temporarily like for a couple of days - uninvited guests usually start to stink after 3) and seek out a new place to live.

[omigawd]

Originally Posted by AndreaII

Interesting, extremely long thread. Just thought I'd throw in my two cents to see people's opinions -

What if the landlord claims in court that she's sharing expenses with these tenants to run the house?

You can share a house as much as you want. However, you can't have more than one kitchen sink and one stove without a permit. And, according to the OP, the town inspector came and saw the place and deemed it illegal.

Best thing for the OP to have done in the beginning would have been to move out of there pronto.

Totally agree. However, it's not that easy to just pick up and move. You have to have a month for the RE, 1 or 2 months security for the LL and a month's rent. So, you're talking at least 4K to "just up and move". I don't know of anyone who just has 4K of disposable income laying around -- not to mention moving expenses (another couple of hundred).

And for next time before moving into another apartment/house, do a much better job interviewing the LL and finding out about all the inhabitants of the place and the condition of the premises. Don't ever take anyone's word for anything. People lie all the time. Drive by the house, park in front of it for a while and see what actually goes on. Go there in the middle of the night and see what does or does not transpire. It's like doing the same thing a good LL would do - they check up on their potential tenants to weed out trouble whenever possible - and you as a tenant need to do the same thing regarding LL's, premises, etc.

I agree. I think the OP learned a good lesson here at a young age in her first apartment.

Also, for the future, perhaps renting a PO box at the local post office would help with the mail situation.

ALWAYS.... I don't trust LLs at all. You're better off getting a PO Box if you're renting, anyway, since it's not a permanent home situation. And you don't want a curious/nosy LL looking through your mail.

Best thing to the OP to do is stop being lazy and get out of there ASAP; all their excuses are going to land them right in the middle of an eviction if they're not out. Worst comes to worst they can put their stuff in storage

I agree they should get out before the court date (but still show up for court).
I don't agree that they're being lazy. See my points above about moving. It's not that easy.
I mentioned in a previous post on this thread that they should take their stuff, put it in a storage unit and find a place to stay until they can get a regular apartment, even if it's a rented room from a friend.

[Azelyn]

Thanks everyone for your help and your tips.

Went to court today, and I think we got royally screwed over. The judge would not even listen to us, he told us all the info we had was ' hear say'.. refused to look at our documents, didnt care if the apartment was illegal... he entertained the landlords whining and in the end he told us we have to be our by feb 1st, and we have to pay her what she wanted.

Im really angry right now that we got treated so crappy by him, everyone else there being evicted got at least 2 months to vacate and we get 2 weeks?

We are filling out a Show cause form right now.. We want to get the inspector and bring him with us because the Judge would not even listen to us when we said it was an illegal apartment.

Does anyone know WHY he would blatantly disregaurd this fact and award her money for illegal activity?

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Azelyn

Thanks everyone for your help and your tips.

Went to court today, and I think we got royally screwed over. The judge would not even listen to us, he told us all the info we had was ' hear say'.. refused to look at our documents, didnt care if the apartment was illegal... he entertained the landlords whining and in the end he told us we have to be our by feb 1st, and we have to pay her what she wanted.

Im really angry right now that we got treated so crappy by him, everyone else there being evicted got at least 2 months to vacate and we get 2 weeks?

We are filling out a Show cause form right now.. We want to get the inspector and bring him with us because the Judge would not even listen to us when we said it was an illegal apartment.

Does anyone know WHY he would blatantly disregaurd this fact and award her money for illegal activity?

I am so sorry you got stuck with THAT for a judge! Something is definitely wrong. I am sorry that I don't know anyone who works in the Suffolk courts to get the scoop on him. Unfortunately, there are many crooked and incompetent judges on the bench.

Now this is amazing! A Certificate of Occupancy stating that the home is a single family dwelling should have been enough for him to at least reserve his decision, give you instructions on how to bring the proof and witnesses he desires, and adjourn to another date.

Yes, bring the inspector. You should not be responsible for paying the landlady anything further.

[omigawd]

Originally Posted by Azelyn

Thanks everyone for your help and your tips.

Went to court today, and I think we got royally screwed over. The judge would not even listen to us, he told us all the info we had was ' hear say'.. refused to look at our documents, didnt care if the apartment was illegal... he entertained the landlords whining and in the end he told us we have to be our by feb 1st, and we have to pay her what she wanted.

Im really angry right now that we got treated so crappy by him, everyone else there being evicted got at least 2 months to vacate and we get 2 weeks?

We are filling out a Show cause form right now.. We want to get the inspector and bring him with us because the Judge would not even listen to us when we said it was an illegal apartment.

Does anyone know WHY he would blatantly disregaurd this fact and award her money for illegal activity?

Did you put your response IN WRITING like I told you to do??? Had you taken the time to type up a Verified Answer with Defenses and Counterclaims, the judge couldn't have treated you like that. He would have had a bit more respect for you. As it is, coming in complaining about things that have nothing to do with the case makes you look bad. If you had gone in as a professional, I can guarantee he would have treated you with respect and you would have won. I know that when my former slumlord attempted the same thing, I went into court with my papers done properly and the judge tossed the slumlord out on his ear.

The problem in these cases is that there is no transcriber. There *may* be a tape recording of the hearing, but that is highly unlikely. You didn't put your answer in writing so the judge knew he could get over on you. Had it been in legal form, he would be worried about you appealing the case and making him look foolish.

The paper you're filling out now.... is that an ORDER TO SHOW CAUSE (and not a "show cause") paper??? If it is, make sure to put your LEGAL argument (that the place is illegal) and get documentation from the town inspector.