If you're thinking about relocating from Long Island to Raleigh, North Carolina... (Levittown: daycare, hotel)

[dman72]

If you're making $8 an hour you definitely should have left LI long ago. Heck, even twice that isn't sufficient IMO. I seriously don't know how all these people in retail and such get by. I managed to do it while in college, but I was living in run down illegal rentals and working 35-40 hours while going to school.

[S.I.B.]

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

As a 45+ year resident of Suffolk County, Long Island, and one sick of the high costs and traffic, and one looking forward to getting the heck off this god-forsaken, once-nice Island to more hospitable climes(both weather-wise and economic), I have to ask: what is "nice" about Long Island?

so you mentioned three things: costs, traffic, and weather. The first I totally understand. If you don't have the $$, LI is not for you. Traffic? That comes with nearly every suburb located near a major city in this country. I could do without it, but I consider it a minor nuisance and not something I would leave the area over. Weather? Can't help you there. I doubt it's gotten signifiantly worse over your 45 years.

At this point, that's an almost rhetorical question, because Long Island is a victim of it's own success, in that all the things that once made it a great place to live have contributed to it being overrun by those who sought it out for those very qualities and, in the process, destroyed what once made it such a great place to live. Long Island is DONE - stick a fork in it and move on!

LI is only DONE to those who cannot afford to enjoy the best of what it has to offer.

[Escape_From_NY]

Originally Posted by dman72

If you're making $8 an hour you definitely should have left LI long ago. Heck, even twice that isn't sufficient IMO. I seriously don't know how all these people in retail and such get by. I managed to do it while in college, but I was living in run down illegal rentals and working 35-40 hours while going to school.

Actually, I was making almost twice that, and even though only a p/t job, I not only managed to pay off all of my $23k in CC debt in under 3 years, but a year after becoming debt free, bought a 3bdrm fixer upper and a waterview building lot w/all utilities and foundation already in place, with no mortage or installment loan on either. And I went 2 years and 8 months without owning a car. I bought me one of them, too(*used*. Cash, no loan) And this while living on LI making $325-350 a week after taxes. If you can cut your rent and expenses down to the bone, you can accomplish amazing things over time with even a barely over minimum wage income.

I am the master of frugal living, money managment, and very creative as to my living arrangements. On a take home of $350 a week, I consistantly banked $200, in effect living on LI on about $600 a month. This went on for 4 years until I resigned from my job in Nov 08. This would not have been possible without extreme self-discipline and a willingness to employ creativity and enjoy cheap(if a tad unusual, and not always quite legal housing situations.

This is why after 4 months of being unemployed with no income at all, I am still solvent, not hitting up my credit lines, not(yet) broke, and not panicking. Most people can go how long....?..without a paycheck before panic, followed by delinquencies, defaults and financial disaster set in? 1 month?
"Long Island on $20 a day, all inclusive" - I could write the book on how to do that, simply because I've been doing just that for about 5 years, at one time by necessity, but for the last couple of years, strictly by choice. It's good training for the sequel: "How to live like WELL on $800 a month
in SC" and/or "How to live on NOTHING for MONTHS at a clip when unexpected hard times hit".

And you're right - I should get off LI, and was preparing to do just that, but not till later on this year. But with the economy in freefall, and uncertain job prospects in a State where I know no one and one that currently has a higher unemployment rate than the NY metro area, I decided I'd best stay put for the time being. That's the only reason I'm still here. In a pinch, I can get a "survival"
job here tomorrow - something NOT guaranteed out-of-state. I'm still in "picky-mode" because I can still afford it. I sometimes think WHAT you do with what you DO make can be just as or even more important then how MUCH you make.

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

Actually, I was making almost twice that, and even though only a p/t job, I not only managed to pay off all of my $23k in CC debt in under 3 years, but a year after becoming debt free, bought a 3bdrm fixer upper and a waterview building lot w/all utilities and foundation already in place, with no mortage or installment loan on either. And I went 2 years and 8 months without owning a car. I bought me one of them, too(*used*. Cash, no loan) And this while living on LI making $325-350 a week after taxes. If you can cut your rent and expenses down to the bone, you can accomplish amazing things over time with even a barely over minimum wage income.

I am the master of frugal living, money managment, and very creative as to my living arrangements. On a take home of $350 a week, I consistantly banked $200, in effect living on LI on about $600 a month. This went on for 4 years until I resigned from my job in Nov 08. This would not have been possible without extreme self-discipline and a willingness to employ creativity and enjoy cheap(if a tad unusual, and not always quite legal housing situations.

This is why after 4 months of being unemployed with no income at all, I am still solvent, not hitting up my credit lines, not(yet) broke, and not panicking. Most people can go how long....?..without a paycheck before panic, followed by delinquencies, defaults and financial disaster set in? 1 month?
"Long Island on $20 a day, all inclusive" - I could write the book on how to do that, simply because I've been doing just that for about 5 years, at one time by necessity, but for the last couple of years, strictly by choice. It's good training for the sequel: "How to live like WELL on $800 a month
in SC" and/or "How to live on NOTHING for MONTHS at a clip when unexpected hard times hit".

And you're right - I should get off LI, and was preparing to do just that, but not till later on this year. But with the economy in freefall, and uncertain job prospects in a State where I know no one and one that currently has a higher unemployment rate than the NY metro area, I decided I'd best stay put for the time being. That's the only reason I'm still here. In a pinch, I can get a "survival"
job here tomorrow - something NOT guaranteed out-of-state. I'm still in "picky-mode" because I can still afford it. I sometimes think WHAT you do with what you DO make can be just as or even more important then how MUCH you make.

I'm interested in the specifics of your frugal spending habits..I survived during most of the 90's living in illegal rentals and shared houses. I had a used car and I worked at a restaurant, so I ate most of my calories there and barely ever spent money on food.

[Escape_From_NY]

so you mentioned three things: costs, traffic, and weather. The first I totally understand. If you don't have the $$, LI is not for you.

Increasingly, it's not for anyone who isn't either well-off/wealthy, or on welfare. The working folks and the middle-class are being squeezed out. So you're right, after 45 years of living and working here, Long Island is not for me. Certainly, not *anymore*.

Traffic? That comes with nearly every suburb located near a major city in this country. I could do without it, but I consider it a minor nuisance and not something I would leave the area over.

I drive for a *living*, and have been for many years. Try slogging through 200 miles a day, 5 days a week, of Long Island traffic - it's MORE than a "minor nuisance".

Weather? Can't help you there. I doubt it's gotten signifiantly worse over your 45 years.

Again, you're right that the weather really hasn't change much in my 45 years here. What HAS changed in only the past 2 years, is my ability to tolerate it. My metabolism isn't what it used to be, and my arthritis is slowly getting worse. And heating costs were not that significant a part of
one's expenses to where it became a point of concern. That has changed as well. Right now oil prices are depressed, but when they rebound, and inflation sets in, this is more and more going to become a significant expense to the average working family.

[S.I.B.]

Increasingly, it's not for anyone who isn't either well-off/wealthy, or on welfare. The working folks and the middle-class are being squeezed out. So you're right, after 45 years of living and working here, Long Island is not for me. Certainly, not *anymore*.

What is your definion of "well off/wealthy"? I don't think my family and I are either yet we manage to live comfortably here.

I drive for a *living*, and have been for many years. Try slogging through 200 miles a day, 5 days a week, of Long Island traffic - it's MORE than a "minor nuisance".

Is your job one that can be found in a less densely populated area? I agree that driving for a living on LI would be a less than ejoyable experience, but it's probably safe to assume it could be just as bad if not worse in other suburban areas around the country.

Again, you're right that the weather really hasn't change much in my 45 years here. What HAS changed in only the past 2 years, is my ability to tolerate it. My metabolism isn't what it used to be, and my arthritis is slowly getting worse. And heating costs were not that significant a part of one's expenses to where it became a point of concern. That has changed as well. Right now oil prices are depressed, but when they rebound, and inflation sets in, this is more and more going to become a significant expense to the average working family.

if you move somewhere warmer, your electric bills will likely increase. We all get old. LI is not to blame.

[Escape_From_NY]

What is your definion of "well off/wealthy"? I don't think my family and I are either yet we manage to live comfortably here.

For Long Island? I would say a $80K-100K gross household income starts
falling in the "well-off" catagory, while $150k and up would meet my definition of wealthy. But that's only my own personal definition and a subjective one at that.

Is your job one that can be found in a less densely populated area? I agree that driving for a living on LI would be a less than ejoyable experience, but it's probably safe to assume it could be just as bad if not worse in other suburban areas around the country.


I've already been down to my future digs and spend 3 days driving all over the area. Compared to LI, the traffic was non-existant, even during the rush hour. 70 MPH speed limits on a nearly empty 4 lane highway(I-85), and in 3 days of exploring the area, I never once had to stop or slow down due to traffic. Beautiful green grass and lots of trees and forests, and NO litter anywhere to be seen on the roadsides. The area looked like New England, `cept they didn't forget to turn the heat on The International airport there is *stunning*, like one big aboretum, with manicured hedges, reflecting pools, gardens, sculptures and waterfalls, and in-and-out takes 5 minutes. It was 90-95% empty and devoid of people at 6:30pm on a Sat eve - completely totally night and day compared to LGA JFK, Newark
or even Islip MacArthur.


if you move somewhere warmer, your electric bills will likely increase. We all get old. LI is not to blame.

No, not in this case. First of all LIPA has some of the highest electric rates in the entire country. Duke Energy in the Carolinas is much more reasonable,(I should know, I pay *both* every month) so much so, that many homes have electric heat there. Then, the fact that the location is exactly half way between LI and S.Fla, gives it the ideal balance of 4 season climate with milder winters and reasonable A/C costs in the summer.

[slynn41072]

Originally Posted by Escape_From_NY

What is your definion of "well off/wealthy"? I don't think my family and I are either yet we manage to live comfortably here.

For Long Island? I would say a $80K-100K gross household income starts
falling in the "well-off" catagory, while $150k and up would meet my definition of wealthy. But that's only my own personal definition and a subjective one at that.

Is your job one that can be found in a less densely populated area? I agree that driving for a living on LI would be a less than ejoyable experience, but it's probably safe to assume it could be just as bad if not worse in other suburban areas around the country.


I've already been down to my future digs and spend 3 days driving all over the area. Compared to LI, the traffic was non-existant, even during the rush hour. 70 MPH speed limits on a nearly empty 4 lane highway(I-85), and in 3 days of exploring the area, I never once had to stop or slow down due to traffic. Beautiful green grass and lots of trees and forests, and NO litter anywhere to be seen on the roadsides. The area looked like New England, `cept they didn't forget to turn the heat on The International airport there is *stunning*, like one big aboretum, with manicured hedges, reflecting pools, gardens, sculptures and waterfalls, and in-and-out takes 5 minutes. It was 90-95% empty and devoid of people at 6:30pm on a Sat eve - completely totally night and day compared to LGA JFK, Newark
or even Islip MacArthur.


if you move somewhere warmer, your electric bills will likely increase. We all get old. LI is not to blame.

No, not in this case. First of all LIPA has some of the highest electric rates in the entire country. Duke Energy in the Carolinas is much more reasonable,(I should know, I pay *both* every month) so much so, that many homes have electric heat there. Then, the fact that the location is exactly half way between LI and S.Fla, gives it the ideal balance of 4 season climate with milder winters and reasonable A/C costs in the summer.

I agree with you.
We have way less traffic than on LI. What people in NC call traffic is laughable.
The best part is on the weekends in the summer you can actually drive around in no traffic at all. Try going out to the Hamptons on a weekend or out of NY at all. The only thing we did on LI is sit in traffic on the weekends unless we stayed local.

Electric is much cheaper outside of LI/NY. My electric bill is approx 160.00 a month for a 3400 sq ft home with central air running constantly in the summer set at 70. My monthly gas bill is 122.00 a month(includes heating).

I think you know exactly what you are talking about.

[Escape_From_NY]

Originally Posted by dman72

I'm interested in the specifics of your frugal spending habits..I survived during most of the 90's living in illegal rentals and shared houses. I had a used car and I worked at a restaurant, so I ate most of my calories there and barely ever spent money on food.

I got more creative. Desperation is the mother of creativity. I bought a cheap old motorhome on ebay for $2k, found a commercial storage yard where I could (ahem)"store" it for $50 a month, an then slowly, incrementally moved in. I convinced the property manager that it would be a good idea for all concerned, if I simply stayed there, kept an eye on things, and made sure the gate was locked up at night after the last of the landscapers came in. I added 2 more large vehicles to my menagerie, voluntarily upped my own rent to $100 a month(I was feeling guilty about only paying $50 a month with extra 2 vehicles). Got my own electric meter
and account, and personal mail addressed to the yard actually get delivered to "my" mailbox there. I use cellular for both phone and internet access.

[alexei27]

Originally Posted by slynn41072

Electric is much cheaper outside of LI/NY. My electric bill is approx 160.00 a month for a 3400 sq ft home with central air running constantly in the summer set at 70. My monthly gas bill is 122.00 a month(includes heating).

I think you know exactly what you are talking about.

I believe LIPA's 0.21 or so per KwH is 2nd in the nation...behind Oahu which is $0.32 per KwH