So who moves to the Island? (New York, Deer Park: mortgage, daycare, house)

[flowergarden]

AlexisT: I agree with you on many of your points; however I disagree on others. You have much more experience than I do with the NY school system as it was when you went to school. I've had 3 months with 3 kids in 3 different schools. These are my initial impressions.

I can tell you there is a distinctive difference between my kids' old district and what they were taught, how they were taught, and approach and attitude of the administration towards the education process. Huge difference. At first I thought it was the school district we chose. Then, after speaking with parents with kids in the schools we didn't chose, I figured out that the schools are teaching those top kids pretty much the same thing in the same way. It's the NY system, not one particular school over another. It is my opinion (3 months worth of opinion ) that the NY school system is driven by the Regents testing system. The system is not changing with the times because the NY school administrations are focusing their efforts on improving their regents scores more than improving their teaching techniques and curriculum.

I am pretty happy with the schools my kids are currently attending. I still liked our old district much, much better. They did a better job at improving the educational quality for all the students attending the school. My kids are getting a good basic education here. They would have gotten an exceptional education if we had stayed. However, we moved. After 3 months I do feel that we made the best overall decision for my kids when we chose the district that we did. We are in a smaller district with lots of honors and AP classes and opportunity for my kids to achieve. I am blessed that they are smart kids and will do well in academia and in life in general. I think that when your kids start attending school in Pa in one of the districts you are talking about, you too will see the difference. Maybe not as much in the elementary level, but definitely by middle school and high school. Until then, we will have to agree to disagree.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by flowergarden

I should know better than to write a post before the morning caffine has kicked in. I didn't mean to sound so negative.

CCH- We moved from the western suburbs of Philadelphia, near Valley Forge Park. The closing scenes of "Marley and Me" made me very homesick! Lots of open space. Also the best public HS in Pa.

AlexisT - I think on average NY schools are good. Great is another thing. Do you have experience with schools other than NY? I've spoken to others that are currently in Ward Melville and HHHs (two of LI's premier schools) about this same issue. They come come from high performing schools in Pa and NJ, as do we, and they and their children agree - NY schools give you a good education, but they aren't "great" like their previous schools. I do think my kids are getting a good basic education.

LOL @ caffeine!

I can see why those scenes made you homesick -- it's a lovely area. While I am a huge fan of VT, that area of PA made me say, "Wow!"

As for the schools here vs schools there scenario...I can't say yes or no as I've never been placed into your position. You've picqued my interest. Mind you, I am not trying to start an argument or anything similar. I've lived here all my life and honestly, I do not know any differently from school systems off LI. Please 'edumacate' me!

What makes the education 'great' at the relocated families previous schools as opposed to 'good' here?

Are the districts focusing on the same sort of values in their lesson plans? Are the students placed into tracks more or less frequently based upon their capabilities?
Do you feel that NCLB has impacted one place more than the other?
Does the home state have as many unfunded mandates as NY?
Do you feel that the difference in population between NY and PA (19+ million as opposed to 12+ million) has anything to do with the variations on school offerings?
Are schools out of state as money driven as they are on LI?

These are only a few things that have popped into my head. I am really curious to read what you feel separates the regions schools.

Thanks

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by AlexisT

Plenty of LI districts are striving to be "top", but ultimately, there are only so many districts that get there.

Again, I don't think the regents is this impossible obstacle you think it is. Many LI districts DO make their top students soar--look at how well LI schools do in Intel and the colleges kids get into. I wonder why you're slamming the Regents but not the APs, which are a much bigger straitjacket than Regents. LI parents may not push their districts as hard as they could, but I don't think this has anything to do with the Regents system. It has to do with money and resistance to change, and a relatively narrow perspective on success. Success is getting kids into the Ivy League. No one really regards the Regents as particularly difficult or even remotely sufficient for top flight students. If anyone's using that as an excuse, they're covering up their own laziness.

There's a lot more flexibility in the Regents system than I think you're giving it credit for. I went through the system and schools can and do differentiate levels and enrich the top achieving students. In some subjects, especially English, the Regents is so minor the teachers don't even prep the honors students for the test. If they don't enrich, it's not because of the Regents exams. The honors kids on LI finish all their Regents by 11th grade at the latest; there's plenty of time for them to do other things.

I've lived in a country (England) with a much, much more prescriptive system than the Regents. The Regents is honestly nothing.

My son's in advanced level and honors, planning on AP courses next year. He'll have all his regents exams finished this June. The district sent home a letter stating that he could take classes at SCC next year as well. (We're back and forth on that as he would need transportation there and he doesn't yet have his license.)

I deliberately did not cap regents because around here, it is nothing more than a final exam -- now or when I had taken my last one over 25 years ago.

The NYS Board of Regents uses the test results to track how schools are doing, much more so than how individual students are fairing.

[flowergarden]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

LOL @ caffeine!

I can see why those scenes made you homesick -- it's a lovely area. While I am a huge fan of VT, that area of PA made me say, "Wow!"

As for the schools here vs schools there scenario...I can't say yes or no as I've never been placed into your position. You've picqued my interest. Mind you, I am not trying to start an argument or anything similar. I've lived here all my life and honestly, I do not know any differently from school systems off LI. Please 'edumacate' me!

What makes the education 'great' at the relocated families previous schools as opposed to 'good' here?

Are the districts focusing on the same sort of values in their lesson plans? Are the students placed into tracks more or less frequently based upon their capabilities?
Do you feel that NCLB has impacted one place more than the other?
Does the home state have as many unfunded mandates as NY?
Do you feel that the difference in population between NY and PA (19+ million as opposed to 12+ million) has anything to do with the variations on school offerings?
Are schools out of state as money driven as they are on LI?

These are only a few things that have popped into my head. I am really curious to read what you feel separates the regions schools.

Thanks

These are great questions! I don't know if I can answer them with any ounce of expertise - as I am not in education- just a parent that has been through the system a bit. Pa is not value based education and all schools are trying to deal with unfunded NCLB laws. These struggles are common. Pa schools overall are more locally run. There is a state test in English and Math that the kids take and need to show proficiency in. They take these tests in 3, 5th, 8th and 11 th grade. They are much more generic tests than the regents system. They are used to judge how well the school is performing and not used to evaluate the kids. These tests don't drive the curriculum for the school district, except at the most basic level.

Pa schools "rank" themselves based on SAT scores and how many kids pass an AP class with a 3 or higher - not just take the AP class like Newsweek does. US New and World report ranks high schools in that way, which is a much better system. They also look at the state test, the PSSA, but not the same way as NY looks at its regents.

I've said this before on other posts, NY schools on average are probably performing better b/c of Regents directed curriculum. There is less difference between poor performing schools and high performing schools. In Pa, the local school boards have much more control. This can be a good thing, like in a wealthy area that has more "smart" kids than average or a bad thing when a school board is struggling with attendance and absent parents. There is a bigger swing in the performance of schools.

In our old school there is a lot more leveling of kids in Reading/English and Math earlier on. This has nothing to do with being gifted. Some kids can have an IQ less than 130 but still be math wizards or English wizards and capable of handling above level work. The opportunity to do above grade work is given to all kids, based on their ability not based on their IQ. In fact many grade level classes are really above grade level. They expect a lot from the kids, they "stretch" the curriculum, and the kids deliver. However, the difference is more than that.

It's the way information is taught, it's how the information is integrated into the school. It is not dry, rote read, repeat kind of stuff. An example is the Ancient Egyptian curriculum. Ancient Egypt is studied in 5th grade. The curriculum was woven into the English and Social Studies and even a bit in the science curriculum. The entire 5th grade learned to write and read hieroglyphics by doing. They each built an actual shoe box size sarcophagus and made each of the things it should contain. They decorated the outside very elaborately. They made life size paper death masks/mummies out of paper and decorated them very intricately. It was a very hands on, creative exercise. These things were hung up all over the school. The level of detail on this was amazing. By the time they finished the section kids could literally walk through the halls and "read" each other’s mummies which were written in ancient hieroglyphics. They got to that level of engagement because they were really INTO it. They learned a lot in a very creative and interactive way. It was cool. In other areas at other times there are plays, and songs, and self directed long term projects presented in using multimedia (movies, video, power point and what not). Very creative, very technical and very high end.

So, in the earlier grades there seems to be more leveling, more variety and more integration of curriculum. In the older grades, I'd say look at the high grade offering books at Tredyffrin, Radnor or Lower Marion. They are all online. Many of the same basic courses are offered. AP Chem is AP Chem in Pa or NY, no question. Then look at the how far the kids can go and the variety of classes offered without having to sign up for a night time college class.

To put it into more concrete terms, my son is currently in an honors level 9th grade English class. He's doing very well. He also took the very same class, with 85% of the same classic literature, last year in 8th grade. His school stops leveling English in 7th grade - so this was a regular 8th grade English class (although he was placed in a class with all high achieving students). Pa is a year ahead in English. In Pa and NY he'll still take an AP English class in 11th grade - but which students are going to be more prepared for that test? The Pa kids, b/c they will have a year more literature and critical thinking skill under their belt.

The same for Spanish (he's re-taking Spanish 2 which he took in 8th grade). The science curriculum is presented a bit different. Not sure how to describe it, but you just can take more sooner.

Again - the district we came from was totally awesome. My concern is that I don't see district here striving to be awesome in that creative, stretching kind of way.

But it really does come down to how good is "good enough". And, again, I've said it before, our current NY school is "good enough". My kids will get a nice HS experience here and are smart and will have "enough" to do whatever they are willing to work hard enough to achieve. They can get anywhere they want to from our current NY school. It'll just be a bit different than we all thought.

[Lisamel]

I haven't logged in for a while, but I remember you, Flowergarden.
You live in my "hood."

I have to say I totally agree. I don't feel the school district is striving to be awesome, and I'm getting pretty tired of paying high taxes for mediocre schools.
I have given serious thought to moving again, but my 4th grader gets very upset whenever I mention it. I am on the fence whether or not he would adjust. He's got a good group of friends. How did your kids adjust to the move? I wonder if my window of opportunity has passed.

I want a better education for him. I hear from a lot of friends who live in other parts of the country how much better they have it and it makes me sad.

[flowergarden]

Originally Posted by Lisamel

I haven't logged in for a while, but I remember you, Flowergarden.
You live in my "hood."

I have to say I totally agree. I don't feel the school district is striving to be awesome, and I'm getting pretty tired of paying high taxes for mediocre schools.
I have given serious thought to moving again, but my 4th grader gets very upset whenever I mention it. I am on the fence whether or not he would adjust. He's got a good group of friends. How did your kids adjust to the move? I wonder if my window of opportunity has passed.

I want a better education for him. I hear from a lot of friends who live in other parts of the country how much better they have it and it makes me sad.

Hey Lisamel- You are in my hood! I've got a 4th greade boy too - I wonder if they know each other. I don't know that I would move in this economic climate just for the schools - but that is up to you. My 4th grader has adjusted the easiest and the fastest. My other two are harder. It's a slow process, but we are getting there.

I think that we are getting a good, basic education. I bet that this school is as good as 90% of the schools in the country. My problem is that if you are that close, why aren't you stepping it up a notch? It's not about money, because these kinds of programs don't necessarily cost more money - its' about teachers and administrators taking the time to start teaching in a different way. Time - which they don't feel they have b/c they are so pressured to have their kids pass those dang ELA's and Regents. They are still using old teaching techniques that don't reach as many kids. Creative, interactive programs with lots of hands on learning is a great way to reach more children.

If I had a choice, I'd move back to my old school - and so would my children. But we don't. Compared to the other school districts in the area, I think we chose well for us. Honestly, I don't feel that I am scaring my children for life here. It's just not the same kind of dynamic learning environment. It's boring. The kids are bored. What a waste when it really doesn't have to be that way.

I think I'm going to try and get some of that dynamic learning into the district. So, when you hear about that crazy new lady trying to bring something strange into the school - that'll be me. Come say hi!

[Lisamel]

Hi,
I didn't know you had a fourth grader. You'll have to pm me. I do remember what neighborhood you live in. It's nice in there.

I agree. They could do so much more but they just aren't. A lot of people waste their time moaning about the lack of full day kindergarten, but I think there are other things they need. But, they choose to put the money into the super football field at the High School, which is nice compared to some of the other schools, but not a priority in my opinion.
I wish they had foreign language at the elementary level like a lot of other schools. My son went to Laurel Hill for kindergarten and loved the spanish class.
He seems kinda bored in some areas, and in some areas not so much. I do a lot with him at home, which sometimes frustrates him, but I want to supplement.
i grew up in a not so great district so I'm overly cautious I guess.

I agree that the economy isn't the best right now. But I have faith in Obama. I think he is going to do a great job.

[Port North]

I moved to Long Island from the suburbs of Buffalo 9 years ago.

Positive things about Long Island:

1. Job opportunities were much better than Buffalo. I spent years being underemployed in Buffalo, but it only took me two weeks to find a job in my field when I moved to Long Island. Salaries were much better in Long Island too.

2. The climate is pretty balanced. Winters are better than where I came and the summers (though a bit hotter than I'm used to) are tolerable. Fall and spring are long and wonderful.

3. Food (especially the pizza) is excellent, even better than Buffalo pizza which is pretty good compared to what you get in most areas of the country.

4. It's close to New York City and there is good public transit in the area (LIRR) compared to most other cities.

5. The park system (especially in Nassau) is quite good and well maintained.

6. The wit and sarcasm of New Yorkers (something that Buffalo seems to share with downstate, so that didn't take much getting used to)

The negatives:

1. Traffic is horredous! It took me years to get used to it and the aggressive style that goes along with it.

2. People not being friendly to strangers (a big change from Buffalo who is known as the city of good neighbors)

3. The excessive materialism and over the top consumerism. Some people sacrifice everything in order to maintain their outward signs of prosperity. I still don't get it and refuse to participate in it.

4. Ignorant attitude toward places outside the area. Many people on Long Island have this strange idea that there is no culture or educated people outside of the NYC Metro.

5. I miss not living next to Canada. It was nice when I lived in Western New York being able to cross the border and go to another country just for the day. I miss Toronto being only 90 minutes away.

6. Overdevelopment and the lack of understanding regrading nature (My neighbor last summer was spraying toads with insect killer, not realizing that killing the toads will make his insect problem worse!).

7. The sense of community is lacking in Long Island. I miss the Sabres and Bills games and frequent snow storms in Buffalo that really bring people together. People in Long Island don't seem to be as attached to their sports teams or communities as they are in the Buffalo area.

8. The cost of living is astronomical on Long Island. Food, gas, utilities, taxes, housing are all through the roof.

I've slowly warmed to Long Island, but if I had the right job opprtunity I would move back upstate. Long Island has its benefits but unless you are very wealthy the benefits do not outweigh the costs!

[dman72]

Originally Posted by Port North

I moved to Long Island from the suburbs of Buffalo 9 years ago.

Positive things about Long Island:

1. Job opportunities were much better than Buffalo. I spent years being underemployed in Buffalo, but it only took me two weeks to find a job in my field when I moved to Long Island. Salaries were much better in Long Island too.

2. The climate is pretty balanced. Winters are better than where I came and the summers (though a bit hotter than I'm used to) are tolerable. Fall and spring are long and wonderful.

3. Food (especially the pizza) is excellent, even better than Buffalo pizza which is pretty good compared to what you get in most areas of the country.

4. It's close to New York City and there is good public transit in the area (LIRR) compared to most other cities.

5. The park system (especially in Nassau) is quite good and well maintained.

6. The wit and sarcasm of New Yorkers (something that Buffalo seems to share with downstate, so that didn't take much getting used to)

The negatives:

1. Traffic is horredous! It took me years to get used to it and the aggressive style that goes along with it.

2. People not being friendly to strangers (a big change from Buffalo who is known as the city of good neighbors)

3. The excessive materialism and over the top consumerism. Some people sacrifice everything in order to maintain their outward signs of prosperity. I still don't get it and refuse to participate in it.

4. Ignorant attitude toward places outside the area. Many people on Long Island have this strange idea that there is no culture or educated people outside of the NYC Metro.

5. I miss not living next to Canada. It was nice when I lived in Western New York being able to cross the border and go to another country just for the day. I miss Toronto being only 90 minutes away.

6. Overdevelopment and the lack of understanding regrading nature (My neighbor last summer was spraying toads with insect killer, not realizing that killing the toads will make his insect problem worse!).

7. The sense of community is lacking in Long Island. I miss the Sabres and Bills games and frequent snow storms in Buffalo that really bring people together. People in Long Island don't seem to be as attached to their sports teams or communities as they are in the Buffalo area.

8. The cost of living is astronomical on Long Island. Food, gas, utilities, taxes, housing are all through the roof.

I've slowly warmed to Long Island, but if I had the right job opprtunity I would move back upstate. Long Island has its benefits but unless you are very wealthy the benefits do not outweigh the costs!

It's really eye opening for us who've lived here our whole lives to hear others perspectives.

There was a woman from Austin who had moved here that posted a few months back, who hit so many nails on the head about LI. Her best line was "people in Austin make things..people on LI buy things."

People here I think are unaware of how materialistic many LI'ers really are. The cars, the handbags with the women, paving stones, granite counter tops, blah blah..does any of it make life better? When I go out to lunch in the area I work, and I see some of the high school kids and hear the things they talk about..my god are they shallow and materialistic. Half the girls seem like they idolize Paris Hilton or something...a girl with no talent who inherited everything she has..I guess that's not just LI, though. that's wannabe Hollywood.

[Lisamel]

I agree with many of the negatives Port North pointed out.
There is a real lack of community here.
I hear from friends of mine who have moves south and west and they can't get over the difference in people. I've seen it myself when visiting other places, but I can't judge only based on a visit.

And yes, the materialism is a problem, but that is everywhere.

What bugs me a lot about LI is that the architecture is just sad. Every place else I've been to has such nice shopping areas and homes with nice architecture. The buildings here both residential and commercial are sad. The exception of course, is the new Tanger in Deer Park, which looks like it belongs it Palm Beach.