Why do we need 126 school districts on Long Island? (Roosevelt: buy, income)

[Jrprofess]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

Then private corporate teaching experiments would have taken off. Their number one priority was profit. As such, efficiency is essential. They have almost completely failed wherever they've been tried, except for sectarian and trade-oriented situations. The latter two situations work better because they don't pursue efficiency. The arch-diocese of NY or Chicago would have benefited long ago from consolidation and what not. They haven't. In many ways, efforts to affect efficiency caused backlash.

Listen, budgets are hardly bloated because of paper and pencil pushers. The vast majority of costs come from facilities and teachers. Nibbling around the edges is a waste - so I guess it's inefficient.

I disagree, as I am not recommending that schools be for profit models, just efficiently run not-for profits...that have million dollar budgets. That is an apples and oranges comparison. I assume you were referring to an Edison Schools, etc, which failed in areas like Philly for example. And I do believe one of the easiest places to make some marked change is in operations. This is a much more difficult issue to attack at the teacher contract level, but as I have mentioned earlier in these forums a huge albatross is the teacher benefit costs, particularly post-retirement. It all needs to be addressed. It is perspectives like yours that presume little savings can come from eliminating administrative waste and redundant services within one district that dooms reform to change from the start. I have actually worked in school districts and university administration....trust me, you could trim the admin ranks by 3/4's and not lose a stitch of service. I've watched people pass one stack of paper, sheet by sheet, to a second individual who subsequently stamped it, and then passed it to a third individual to stuff in a envelope...and that was their only job for the month of March...it was depressing to see the waste.

[nbres]

For teachers, consolidation would better.

1. Teachers would be able to easily transfer to any school within the county. Just like NYC teachers do within NYC. This is especially important if you are in danger of losing your job because of dropping enrollment.

2. Health benefits would be standardized - given economies of scale, costs per employee would be lower - that means lower or no deductibles and/or lower co-pays. Again a benefit NYC teachers have.

3. A larger county teacher union could negotiate better pension benfits as the NYC teachers have done. Retire at 55.

4. Salaries for teachers would be standardized throughout the county and those salary tables would be published for all to see, just like NYC teacher salaries are.

5. A larger county wide Teachers Union would wield far more power than the many smaller school district unions that exist now.

[longislandmike]

ANYONE have ANY stories of "waste" by teachers, school districts ?

I "heard" that teachers are instructed to destroy books and materials, at the end of EVERY YEAR or school session, so the school district has to buy ALL NEW materials, so the school district has to USE UP the money allocated for same !

It would be nice share ANY other stories, to illustrate brazen, school waste !

[AlexisT]

If that does occur, it would be because of regulations about "use it or lose it", rather than some kind of teacher conspiracy.

nbres, the problem with your argument is that the teachers are never going to agree to a contract where a large number of them take a pay cut--so consolidation would result in the average salary remaining pretty much the same, if not going up (depending on how the salary breakdown works out). So salary costs are unlikely to go down due to consolidation, and salaries are by far the biggest part of the budget.

As for administrative efficiency, how much of an effect that will have depends on how much of the budget is spent on administration. You could achieve some really impressive efficiency gains, and not have it affect the overall budget very much.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by Jrprofess

I disagree, as I am not recommending that schools be for profit models, just efficiently run not-for profits...that have million dollar budgets. That is an apples and oranges comparison. I assume you were referring to an Edison Schools, etc, which failed in areas like Philly for example. And I do believe one of the easiest places to make some marked change is in operations. This is a much more difficult issue to attack at the teacher contract level, but as I have mentioned earlier in these forums a huge albatross is the teacher benefit costs, particularly post-retirement. It all needs to be addressed. It is perspectives like yours that presume little savings can come from eliminating administrative waste and redundant services within one district that dooms reform to change from the start. I have actually worked in school districts and university administration....trust me, you could trim the admin ranks by 3/4's and not lose a stitch of service. I've watched people pass one stack of paper, sheet by sheet, to a second individual who subsequently stamped it, and then passed it to a third individual to stuff in a envelope...and that was their only job for the month of March...it was depressing to see the waste.

There is no reason to believe that a more efficient school enhances the instruction. I have given you examples in which efficiency mindedness has been coupled with the collapse of terrible school programs.

I believe that once a school system starts emphasizing economies of scale and begins working on a larger scale, it becomes less responsive to its community. Once the residents no longer view the school district as something local, they disengage. This is one of the reasons people believe that private schools are effective - they are small and local.

We've been given no reason to believe it is otherwise.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by longislandmike

ANYONE have ANY stories of "waste" by teachers, school districts ?

I "heard" that teachers are instructed to destroy books and materials, at the end of EVERY YEAR or school session, so the school district has to buy ALL NEW materials, so the school district has to USE UP the money allocated for same !

It would be nice share ANY other stories, to illustrate brazen, school waste !

When I lived in Florida, I saw several teachers wasted by the system. A couple from Boston moved to Central Florida. They were registered teachers in Boston. After one year in the Florida system with low pay, threats of transfer, and an over-riding emphasis on efficiency- they quit to work in a local Montessori program.

After being pooped on by the system in a number of ways, my wife quit teaching altogether (in Florida).

I know a French professor who wanted to teach in Florida. She taught for a semester, and gave it up to instruct at a community college.

The people who stayed either had rich husbands or weren't qualified to do anything else.

Now THAT is waste!

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by nbres

For teachers, consolidation would better.

1. Teachers would be able to easily transfer to any school within the county. Just like NYC teachers do within NYC. This is especially important if you are in danger of losing your job because of dropping enrollment.

2. Health benefits would be standardized - given economies of scale, costs per employee would be lower - that means lower or no deductibles and/or lower co-pays. Again a benefit NYC teachers have.

3. A larger county teacher union could negotiate better pension benfits as the NYC teachers have done. Retire at 55.

4. Salaries for teachers would be standardized throughout the county and those salary tables would be published for all to see, just like NYC teacher salaries are.

5. A larger county wide Teachers Union would wield far more power than the many smaller school district unions that exist now.

1) Your first point is crazy. Most of our teachers are women, and many of them are mothers with children in the system. The thought that teachers would see an advantage in being transferred across Suffolk County is an assertion from someone who knows nearly nothing about the system.

2) Standardizing health benefits isn't a benefit to people who have better health programs than the "new" offering.

3) Larger doesn't mean stronger - with respect to negotiating benefits. If I'm in Huntington and I get great benefits, spreading the wealth around levels things out meaning many people in Suffolk would negotiate their benefits down.

4) Collapsing school districts into the county has nothing to do with publishing their salaries. You could keep them as they are, and publish their salaries. I see no reason why "standardizing salaries" is a benefit to anyone but the person who would like to reduce their salaries.

5) What kind of power would they wield? You just described forces that would reduce benefits and pay throughout the county for many teachers. What would the net value for the union be if their larger size was eaten up by in-fighting and struggles to bring salaries, benefits and pensions back to where they were before the consolidation.

PLEASE NOTE! You said NOTHING about enhancing instruction. NOTHING.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by longislandmike

ANYONE have ANY stories of "waste" by teachers, school districts ?

I "heard" that teachers are instructed to destroy books and materials, at the end of EVERY YEAR or school session, so the school district has to buy ALL NEW materials, so the school district has to USE UP the money allocated for same !

It would be nice share ANY other stories, to illustrate brazen, school waste !

Who'd you hear that from? A Union hating gremlin, or Sean Hannity?

My neighbor is a full time teacher, and laughed when I read this to her. What pap!

[hotkarl]

My son's Principal is waste. Waste of my tax dollars.
She does absolutely nothing. She just likes to hang around in her fancy clothes and let people notice her. I think she actually believes she is some sort of celebrity.
Total primadonna. She's gotta be knocking down between 100-200k a year.
Don't worry though, when I become Nassau County executive in the next election, things are definitley going to change. So much so, that I will probabally need to wear a bulletproof vest at all times, even in the shower.

[longislandmike]

Originally Posted by DeadPool1998

Who'd you hear that from? A Union hating gremlin, or Sean Hannity?

My neighbor is a full time teacher, and laughed when I read this to her. What pap!

No, not Sean Hannity...it was actually another teacher, in the school system in my locality.