Why do we need 126 school districts on Long Island? (Henrietta: apartment, rent)

[Smash255]

Originally Posted by AlexisT

You can't simply have equal per pupil spending, because of special education, LEP students, etc. It would have to be weighted, at the very least, and take account of student needs. A kid in a low-ratio class costs 2 or 3 times as much to educate as a kid in mainstream education.

The issue of local priorities is a very real one, and I'm not sure it has an easy answer. On the one hand, it's not fair that Great Neck can outspend Roosevelt because they can afford to raise more money. On the other hand, it's not really fair to hold one set back in the name of equality... and you have to draw the line on what you'll pay for, somewhere.

Hotkarl, my friends in CA have told me some pretty hair raising stories about what they're asked to pay for. The arts and music programs in many schools are entirely parent-funded; in others, parents are paying for smaller class sizes.

You do bring up a good point, many things need to be taken into consideration and an exact per pupil spending probably wouldn't work. However, we need to have a happy medium somewhere. Having some districts with double the tax rate as others simply because they are poorer and/or have a weaker tax base is completely unfair and needs to change.

[longislandmike]

Originally Posted by Smash255

You do bring up a good point, many things need to be taken into consideration and an exact per pupil spending probably wouldn't work. However, we need to have a happy medium somewhere. Having some districts with double the tax rate as others simply because they are poorer and/or have a weaker tax base is completely unfair and needs to change.

I feel it's going to turn somewhere around the aging demographics, no children in the school system...and at least, a reduction in per centage points, for certain residents.

Because of the aging thing, there has to be some kind of "give" on this.

[OhBeeHave]

The 99% Solution
From this Weeks Times-Village Herald:
Assemblyman Steve Englebright (D-Setauket) has introduced a bill in Albany to "Fix the Formula," a plan that if enacted would significantly benefit taxpayers in at least four Suffolk school districts by revising the state aid formula for education funding.

<snip>

According to Englebright, the law would amend the state aid formula to eliminate the top and bottom one half of 1 percent of the district's residents from the calculation of average adjusted gross income. The assemblyman argues that disparities caused by one or a handful of very wealthy residents living in a district would thus be eliminated. A chart on the website www.fixtheformula.com states that the percentage of Foundation aid to Three Village would increase from 24.9 to 32.2 percent if the proposed change to the formula were to become law. Mount Sinai's Foundation aid would rise from 34.7 to 41.6 percent.

<snip>

"Sometimes it takes people a little time to 'get it,'" said Kornreich, suggesting residents should check out the website to understand the fairness such a change would bring to the state aid formulas.

Englebright said he had no state Senate sponsor yet for his bill, A03275, but he was seeking someone in the new Democratic majority who might champion the measure. Asked if support was unlikely from the representative of any district that might lose state funding as a result, Englebright said the change would serve to "protect" all districts from the future possibility of severe reductions in aid.

"The number one victimized district in the state," Englebright said, "was Liberty School District," a rural upstate region where a single wealthy individual moved in. "One new resident," he said, "severely altered" state aid. "It could happen to any district."

An enthusiastic Kornreich said, "We have received letters of support from districts across the state, and the phones are starting to ring in legislators' offices."
-------------------------------
The article in it's entirety can be found at:
99% solution introduced in Albany

[longislandmike]

It's like watching a pot of water boil...it's only a matter of time

[DCopperfield]

Consolidation would be a great idea. But, each town wants to maintain control; their little power structures. Consolidation....let's just say half as many districts would eliminate all these over paid unnecessary Supts. of Schools and all their Asst. Supts. of Schools and all the other duplication. Also, the disticts could buy in bulk....everything from textbooks to pencils to heating oil. We would need just as many teachers to service the students, but we would not need all these absurd, overpaid administrators.

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

The 99% Solution
From this Weeks Times-Village Herald:
Assemblyman Steve Englebright (D-Setauket) has introduced a bill in Albany to "Fix the Formula," a plan that if enacted would significantly benefit taxpayers in at least four Suffolk school districts by revising the state aid formula for education funding.

<snip>

According to Englebright, the law would amend the state aid formula to eliminate the top and bottom one half of 1 percent of the district's residents from the calculation of average adjusted gross income. The assemblyman argues that disparities caused by one or a handful of very wealthy residents living in a district would thus be eliminated. A chart on the website www.fixtheformula.com states that the percentage of Foundation aid to Three Village would increase from 24.9 to 32.2 percent if the proposed change to the formula were to become law. Mount Sinai's Foundation aid would rise from 34.7 to 41.6 percent.

<snip>

"Sometimes it takes people a little time to 'get it,'" said Kornreich, suggesting residents should check out the website to understand the fairness such a change would bring to the state aid formulas.

Englebright said he had no state Senate sponsor yet for his bill, A03275, but he was seeking someone in the new Democratic majority who might champion the measure. Asked if support was unlikely from the representative of any district that might lose state funding as a result, Englebright said the change would serve to "protect" all districts from the future possibility of severe reductions in aid.

"The number one victimized district in the state," Englebright said, "was Liberty School District," a rural upstate region where a single wealthy individual moved in. "One new resident," he said, "severely altered" state aid. "It could happen to any district."

An enthusiastic Kornreich said, "We have received letters of support from districts across the state, and the phones are starting to ring in legislators' offices."
-------------------------------
The article in it's entirety can be found at:
99% solution introduced in Albany

Hmmmmmmmm.

Wealthfare for the rich.No Millionaire left behind, indeed.
You cant have boutique districts on the cheap.

Look at this list...is he kidding?
No wonder hes got no support for it.

East Williston
Garden City
Hewlett
Woodmere
Jericho
North Shore
Port Washington
Roslyn
Syosset
East Moriches
East Quogue
Mount Sinai
Three Village

Maybe its time to send Charlie Wang packing?
It doesnt seem like Anna Wintour screwed up any aid for Wm Floyd?

Im sorry but my heart does not break for the towns in question, in fact they could all dig a little deeper.

Sadly its a tale of two Islands Beehave, I feel for you.
You know why we left 3V for Rocky Point years ago, we saw the writing on the wall, its a rich mans district.
If they want 20k a year in taxes to keep the riff raff out ...they can keep it.This is free market Capitalisim.
People vote with their feet, like Ive said, most of my WMHS class of Eightysomethings who didnt flee for NC are out here now...and they love it.


Good luck with it, whats left of the Middle Class in 3v can use all the help they can get.

crooks

[longislandmike]

What has to be done is this...

1. MOBILIZE TAXPAYERS TO GET OUT AND VOTE.

Here is a recent vote in Mt. Sinai...

Mount Sinai voters approve school construction

Zachary R. Dowdy February 12, 2009 Voters in Mount Sinai last night narrowly approved two measures authorizing new construction in the Mt. Sinai Middle School. The first measure allocated funds for the project, which will build a new gym, classroom, all-purpose room and some storage space and will cost $3.6 million. It passed 283 to 243.

The second measure, which passed 281 to 227, requires that just over $1.6 million of the total cost be paid with capital reserve funds, Excel building aid, regular building aid, and money in the fund balance.


Mount Sinai voters approve school construction -- Newsday.com

In these tough economic times, "critical mass" about UNREASONABLE SCHOOL BUDGETS will be achieved. NO ONE CAN AFFORD IT ANYMORE.

What, 508 voters out of a voter base in this town of whatever, ITS BIGGER THAN 508, that's for sure !

"The 6th Legislative District (L.D.) of Suffolk County is located in the northeast portion of the Town of Brookhaven. It consists of fifty-three (53) election districts (E.D.s) with approximately 50,010 registered voters. This District serves the Hamlets of Mount Sinai, Miller Place, Sound Beach, Rocky Point, and parts of Shoreham, Ridge, Middle Island, Coram, and Port Jefferson Station."

http://www.co.suffolk.ny.us/legis/do/2009/do6.htm


2. VOTE AS MANY TIMES AS IT TAKES TO "BREAK" THE "VOTE TILL YOU PASS" SCHOOL DISTRICT BUDGET HIKES, UNTIL THEY ARE VOTED DOWN, AND THE SCHOOL DISTRICTS COME BEGGING.

3. REFORM THE SYSTEM.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Crookhaven

Hmmmmmmmm.

Wealthfare for the rich.No Millionaire left behind, indeed.
You cant have boutique districts on the cheap.

Look at this list...is he kidding?
No wonder hes got no support for it.

East Williston
Garden City
Hewlett
Woodmere
Jericho
North Shore
Port Washington
Roslyn
Syosset
East Moriches
East Quogue
Mount Sinai
Three Village

Maybe its time to send Charlie Wang packing?
It doesnt seem like Anna Wintour screwed up any aid for Wm Floyd?

Im sorry but my heart does not break for the towns in question, in fact they could all dig a little deeper.

Sadly its a tale of two Islands Beehave, I feel for you.
You know why we left 3V for Rocky Point years ago, we saw the writing on the wall, its a rich mans district.
If they want 20k a year in taxes to keep the riff raff out ...they can keep it.This is free market Capitalisim.
People vote with their feet, like Ive said, most of my WMHS class of Eightysomethings who didnt flee for NC are out here now...and they love it.


Good luck with it, whats left of the Middle Class in 3v can use all the help they can get.

crooks

Fix the Formula

You're forgetting to take into account that property values as well as income figure into the state aid formula. The above chart gives a breakdown as to how this is calculated. What happens to seniors whose houses have soared in value, leaving them house rich?

The proposal eliminates the bottom 1% and top 1% to give a more accurate idea as to the average income/property value in a district.

Bear in mind what the article states -- some districts' aid is skewed by the presence of a few uber wealthy individuals -- case in point the Liberty School district. Other districts' aid might be skewed by a larger number of poverty cases. As stated below, they are looking at the middle 99% of a district's income tax returns. If there are 10,000 income tax filers, 100 will be eliminated -- the top 50 and the bottom 50.

My children file income tax returns -- if someone like the billionaire Simons is dropped from Setauket, my son's return will be dropped, too; neither one is representative of the true wealth in the town. Lose the billionaire, lose the 16 year old who made $3K.

From the FAQ:
[SIZE=3]Q. What is “Fix the Formula’s” primary goal?
A. The primary goal is to make the State aid formula a more equitable distribution of funding among all districts. One of the key data inputs for calculating State aid is the average per pupil income, which can create extremely distorted wealth profiles due to the presence of one or more "statistical outliers". Simply by including only the middle 99% of the district's income tax returns, a more accurate wealth profile (ability to pay) is captured.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]

[Crookhaven]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

Fix the Formula

You're forgetting to take into account that property values as well as income figure into the state aid formula. The above chart gives a breakdown as to how this is calculated. What happens to seniors whose houses have soared in value, leaving them house rich?

The proposal eliminates the bottom 1% and top 1% to give a more accurate idea as to the average income/property value in a district.

Bear in mind what the article states -- some districts' aid is skewed by the presence of a few uber wealthy individuals -- case in point the Liberty School district. Other districts' aid might be skewed by a larger number of poverty cases. As stated below, they are looking at the middle 99% of a district's income tax returns. If there are 10,000 income tax filers, 100 will be eliminated -- the top 50 and the bottom 50.

My children file income tax returns -- if someone like the billionaire Simons is dropped from Setauket, my son's return will be dropped, too; neither one is representative of the true wealth in the town. Lose the billionaire, lose the 16 year old who made $3K.

From the FAQ:
[SIZE=3]Q. What is “Fix the Formula’s” primary goal? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]A. The primary goal is to make the State aid formula a more equitable distribution of funding among all districts. One of the key data inputs for calculating State aid is the average per pupil income, which can create extremely distorted wealth profiles due to the presence of one or more "statistical outliers". Simply by including only the middle 99% of the district's income tax returns, a more accurate wealth profile (ability to pay) is captured.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][/SIZE]

I completely understand the premise but its still a tough sell Beehave.

Who wants to excuse the top 1% in this economy?

One might argue that the stregth of your schools has everything to do with them being your neighbor politically.
Thats a Rich mans piece of legislation and I doubt Englebright will find much sympathy for it.

I'm rootin' for you though.
If it dont work out you can always come home to your peeps in RP


Good luck

crooks

[longislandmike]

STICK IT to the top 1%, and I am sure that the "free spending" school districts would be a little bit tighter around budget time.