Why do we need 126 school districts on Long Island? (Levittown: sale, buying)

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by Smash255

Well if you look at spending per pupil it is generally the lowest in the poor districts. They don't have the $$ to buy the newer textbooks or afford to get the higher paid & quality teachers. Now that isn't a knock on the teachers in these districts, but they don't have the ability to retain some of them because of costs. You also have more $$ be spent on various programs in these districts such as free lunches and what not. Now it does lead to more state aid, but the increased aid generally is not enough to overcome the overall economic factors. I just don't think its fair to say some areas the people don't care about the education, they just don't have the funds & resources available in order to provide the same type of education as you see in other areas.

I thought the poor districts get a lot in Federal assistance and get more programs (Head Start, etc.) to help out. Isn't the free lunch program federally subsidized for kids that qualify?

FUN FACT about the Free Lunch Program: Rumor has it that Wilson Milord of Dix Hills, the slumlord of the illegally divided house where several people died of carbon monoxide poisoning last year, had his kid(s) on the free lunch program at their local school!

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by Smash255

That isn't to say the motivation isn't there in a district such as Roosevelt, but is there in Chaminade. The difference between the resources between the two are stark.

The motivation may be there in some, but those around them who do not value education, who see fast cash in drug dealing, who chastise those who want to learn for "not keeping it real" keep them back and hold them down. It's not just poverty or racism doing it to the students -- it is their own people, too.

If a motivated child were plucked from Roosevelt HS, and was given free tuition at Chaminade, that child would rise to the challenge and excel.

If a thug wannabe with no desire to learn were plucked from Roosevelt, and was given free tuition at Chaminade, that child would be flounder at Chaminade.

[Smash255]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

I thought the poor districts get a lot in Federal assistance and get more programs (Head Start, etc.) to help out. Isn't the free lunch program federally subsidized for kids that qualify?

FUN FACT about the Free Lunch Program: Rumor has it that Wilson Milord of Dix Hills, the slumlord of the illegally divided house where several people died of carbon monoxide poisoning last year, had his kid(s) on the free lunch program at their local school!

They do get more federal and state assistance, however the assistance they get generally doesn't make up for the weak tax base in these districts. The overall spending per pupil are lower in many of these districts than the middle class and wealthier districts. On top of that the various aid programs are included in the spending per pupil tallies. So the difference in per pupil spending is actually larger than it appears when it comes to things such as textbooks, computers, class size, etc.

[OhBeeHave]

I attended Plainedge -- a school district with a miniscule commercial tax base. People owned homes and paid their taxes. Someone owns homes in the poor areas, they have to be paying their taxes, no?

[AlexisT]

One thing that consolidation could change is the concentration of poor students and bad influences in particular schools. It's not as simple as kids being predetermined as "good" or "bad". Kids respond to their environment. When they see other students respecting the teachers and working, they're more likely to do the same. Take a kid from a good home and put them in an environment where no one respects education, and they won't either.

[Smash255]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

I attended Plainedge -- a school district with a miniscule commercial tax base. People owned homes and paid their taxes. Someone owns homes in the poor areas, they have to be paying their taxes, no?

Of course they are, however look at the income differences between Plainedge, and Roosevelt or Wyandanch. Plainedge is by no means a wealthy area, its probably a perfect example of a hard working middle class community.

[RVCparent]

It also has to do with the family unit. I have a teacher friend in a good LI school district and the children that fail have broken homes, with no father and they stay at their grandparents 3 days a week and no one helps them read and do homework. Today school is a joint effort with parents and teachers. These students are falling asleep in school and have no motivation. Its time for people who are less fortunate (like my grandparents were) to make sacrifices and forget the bling and raise a family and sacrifice for your children. One generation sacrifices in a family unit and the rewards are priceless.. This is not a socialism country take personal responsibility for your family

[nbres]

Originally Posted by OhBeeHave

If you took a motivated Roosevelt student, a kid whose mother is barely scraping by but knows the value of an education, and placed him in Chaminade, he would excel.

Parents who value education, who respect the law, and who have the audacity to discipline their children, and show an interest in their school work will see their children do well. Involved parents and the teachers make up the combination necessary to create a student who want to learn. This transcends poverty and wealth.

You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. No matter how much money is poured into the coffers of the poor districts, if the motivation is not there, students aren't going to learn.

This is a very cogent response. There are of course parents and kids in every district from Great Neck to Roosevelt who don't value education, but there are also parents and kids in every district that do. The point being is that the school system can not change poor choices and bad behaviour, but it shouldn't penalize good parents and kids who are trapped in "bad" schools. A consolidated school system would give a bright kid in Roosevelt the opportunity to get a great education.

We can not control outcomes, but the system should offer equal oppurtunity for all regardless of race, ethnicity and class.

[nbres]

Originally Posted by Walter Greenspan

Any effort to consolidate two, five, ten or all 56 school districts in Nassau County (the same would be true for Suffolk County) would result in significant higher costs as the teachers in the new consolidated school district would all be paid using the contract from the highest paying school district, unless each of the consolidating school districts was first dissolved, thereby cancelling all existing union contracts, before forming the new, larger school district. which then would negotiate a new union contract.

All teacher contracts with the former independent districts would be voided and a new comprehensive contract would cover all teachers in the new consolidated district.

The teachers of course would consolidate their Union, but the county would be negotiating only one teacher contract with one teacher union. This should result in greater savings overall for the county.

This would eliminate the constant push by teachers in each district to ask for higher pay because the district next door pays more. Then you would have a system where Nassau Teachers would compare themselves to New York City teachers and Western Suffolk teachers.

[DeadPool1998]

Originally Posted by nbres

All teacher contracts with the former independent districts would be voided and a new comprehensive contract would cover all teachers in the new consolidated district.

The teachers of course would consolidate their Union, but the county would be negotiating only one teacher contract with one teacher union. This should result in greater savings overall for the county.

This would eliminate the constant push by teachers in each district to ask for higher pay because the district next door pays more. Then you would have a system where Nassau Teachers would compare themselves to New York City teachers and Western Suffolk teachers.

This is some dream-world stuff here. First off, I think it is great fun when conservatives claim that schools need more competition (free market), take one breath and then say that all schools need to be consolidated - one pay, one contract, standardized. If you are seriously interested in "consolidated" districts, look at a model. Florida is a "good" model.

In Florida you have countywide districts, identical to what is being advocated here. I'll note, first, that the schools writ large are among the worst performing schools in the country. Now, the reason it was consolidated, plain and simple, was to save money. What do you get? When I was leaving Florida, Orange County was planning a high school for 30,000 kids. Teachers signed contracts with counties. To punish teachers for whistle blowing or advocating for things like copies or books (seriously, books) the enormous districts would transfer them to the other end of the county. So, someone working in western Suffolk could be transfered to Rocky Point.

The idea that it would end or mute pay comparison by district is baseless. Florida counties used Georgia border district pay for comparison when negotiating contracts - and I'm not talking about living in a border county. I lived in central Florida where the starting pay for a Georgia teacher was well known. The same thing would happen here. So, Islip would no longer compare with Huntington - so what? Suffolk would compare with Nassau.

Also, this would drive teacher pay down. Someone in the Northport school system wouldn't be paid as much. The taxes and pay would be distributed throughout the county, so Central Islip and Huntington teachers would be paid the same amount. Now, for people saying, "We aren't a socialism country," it surprises me that you would advocate anything of this sort. I think right here you reveal that your true calling is just to reduce your tax bill, not to improve schools because you are in effect really advocating tax redistribution from Huntington to Central Islip.

Finally, I know of no county wide consolidated system that allows students to transfer throughout the system. So this myth that a poor black kid in Roosevelt could go to a Glen Cove school is Moderator cut: language
in the sky stuff. That isn't going to happen, and you know it. Florida didn't let it happen.

The entire proposal is designed to undermine and weaken our public schools, schools that happen to rank among the best in the nation. Good things cost money. Efficiency isn't always good; it's good for a business model but it doesn't strike me as having any enhancing effect on schools and learning.