Why does Levittown have such a bad reputation? (New York, Union: appointed, city hall)

[longislandmike]

Originally Posted by Elke Mariotti

Or to put it another way, statistics can be manipulated to prove whatever point you want to make... sad but true

I heartlily agree.

It is ALWAYS nice to have a source, though.

[Elke Mariotti]

Originally Posted by longislandmike

I heartlily agree.

It is ALWAYS nice to have a source, though.

Yes, then one can go to that source and do one's own manipulation

[sean sean sean sean]

Originally Posted by longislandmike

QUESTION: What effect does "diversity" HAVE on property values...i.e. does it "raise" property values or "lower" property values ?

Since you list statistics in your post, Please, also state the source for the statistics.

It would be interesting and helpful to our understanding of your opinion.

WHY ? Because statistics, can "lie"...no PERSONAL OFFENSE MEANT to you, ok ?

You can find those statistics on several websites, the most recent ones are usually on greatschools.net - which (if you click the link) shows 65% white, 21% Hispanic and 12% Asian for Summit Lane Elementary School. I think you missed nbres point however, which was that Levittown has become substantially more diverse in recent years and this may be driving away potential white buyers, and lowering prices. Valid argument since it's certainly happened many other places....however, I don't think this is true at all. For one thing, Levittown is still 88% white....hardly diverse. I've noticed a lot more Indian (I think they fall in the "Asian" category) families, if more Hispanic families have moved in I guess they just blend in well. There are a lot of Italians who could pass for Hispanic in Levittown and always have been, so I guess I just don't notice them.

More importantly though, Levittown has always been cheaper even when it was 99.9% white. For example, at the 2000 census Levittown was 94.1% white. At that time, the median home value was $189,700 and $240,200 for Nassau County as a whole. That means it was ~21% lower than the county average. Fast forward to 2007, median home value for Levittown is $401,197 while the county average has climbed to $508,000. Absolutely no difference: it's still around 21% lower. You can check these numbers on the city-data.com pages for Levittown and Nassau County, that's where I got them from.

I also don't really want to sidetrack this thread with more nonsense about how awful diversity is and how it ruins property values but lets take another look at Levittown vs. some other Long Island towns with similar economic makeup.

Here are the recent home sale charts (again, from city-data.com) for the Levittown, NY 11756 zip code ($86,123 median household income):


Now lets take a look at Baldwin, NY 11510 ($90,709 median household income):

60.3% White, 22.9% Black, 11.6% Hispanic

2008 COL index for both areas is nearly identical as is median household income. Why are homes in a diverse area like Baldwin selling for $50k+ more than in Levittown, on average? I think these areas are pretty comparable in terms of housing options. Baldwin is a little more pricey near the water, but it's also slightly closer to New York City and has an LIRR station - absolute property value killers according to other posts you've made. Certainly those facts plus ever diversifying demographics in Baldwin should drive those prices down, right?

Well how about we compare Levittown to something more similar, a little more middle of the island than Baldwin? Those waterfront properties may be throwing it off. I know, lets compare it to Elmont! That place is even more diverse, housing stock is virtually the same, isn't close to the water at all....and it touches NYC! Certainly this will prove that diversity means property values will sink into the gutter on Long Island:

Elmont, NY 11003 ($78,529 median household income):

White: 38.7%, Black: 34.7%, Hispanic: 14.3%, Asian: 6.7%

How can it be? Isn't that the town that harbors gangs of purse snatchers?

I could go on with this for a long time, but you're not going to find many truly DIVERSE areas on Long Island that are cheaper than Levittown....in fact, I'd wager you won't find one. What you will find, and what you're probably confusing with diverse areas, are places that have predominantly minority populations such as Hempstead, Roosevelt and Wyandanch.

[longislandmike]

"Levittown is still 88% white....hardly diverse."

I will take the plunge and say this number, you present...absent ANY official "math" on it...fairly, proportionate to the general population, and close to being...."diverse".

This would depend, 1) what definition of "diverse" you use, 2) what numbers you use...i.e. the last official Federal Government Census, OR say, NAACP definition of "diverse", OR Jesse Jackson's or Al Sharpton's OR the Democratic Party's definition of "diverse".


"I've noticed a lot more Indian (I think they fall in the "Asian" category) families, if more Hispanic families have moved in I guess they just blend in well."

Actually, in INDIA, Hicksville is known AS THE NUMBER ONE PLACE TO GO IN THE UNITED STATES, IF YOU ARE FROM INDIA AND YOU GO TO THE USA TO SETTLE DOWN. Makes one pause to thunk, doesnt it ? Oh, well, you are human.

They "blend in"...using your words, now...because they have CASH, and pay up front, on the whole, they earnestly learn our language and our social values to genuinely WANT to be part of our country's rich, fabric, AND they seem to be taking over" jobs, normally, that would go to US born "minorities". Which I am SURE endears them, to the other, what I will call the "US Them".

EVERYONE LIKES US $$$, so, on the whole, they know how to play the game of their adopted country, so it naturally follows they would be accepted "quicker" than those recaltricent emigres who are, frankly obstinate to ANY assimulation of their adopted country....but in this former case, it's not their adopted country", as much as it is an invitation to Rip It OFF, in the usual ways. COMPLETELY DIFFERENT ATTITUDES. Come on, we KNOW this exists, right ?

"There are a lot of Italians who could pass for Hispanic in Levittown and always have been, so I guess I just don't notice them."

I am reluctant to go "here" and digress into another opportunity for you to personally attack me, but I will "red flag" this comment, which on it's face is quizical to me, but hey, NO ONE IS PERFECT, Brother Man !

Thank you for raising our personal dialogue here, to something everyone can share.

[llama8]

ummm, since when is 88% white diverse?? To me it means the area is one of the least diverse on LI. Also, what about the rest of the schools in Levittown. Something tells me that summit lane is the most diverse and that is hardly anything to write about.

I looked on the following website Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowedfor the current breakdown in Levittown:
white 88%
Hispanic 7.4%
Black 0.5%
Asian 2.9%
Other 0.1%

I also looked at the racial breakdown in 1999 (ten years ago) and it was almost exactly the same Levittown - News, Events, Schools, Apartments, Real Estate, Homes, College Admissions
white 89%
Asian 2.79
Hispanic 6.51%

To me, it seems that the population had stayed almost exactly the same in breakdown. hopefully people are not so racist as to see a few non-white people and panic

Someone mentioned an increase in diverstiy scaring away white buyers????? What???? All of LI is becoming more diverse and if 88% white scares you, then I wouldn't want to live with you in Levittown. I live here and don't see an influx of hispanic families (an increase in 1% over 10 years is not an influx...it means a handful of nice families moved in.) Somehow I think that the previous poster is again making an issue where there is none.

[longislandmike]

Originally Posted by llama8

ummm, since when is 88% white diverse?? To me it means the area is one of the least diverse on LI. Also, what about the rest of the schools in Levittown. Something tells me that summit lane is the most diverse and that is hardly anything to write about.

I looked on the following websiteModerator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed for the current breakdown in Levittown:
white 88%
Hispanic 7.4%
Black 0.5%
Asian 2.9%
Other 0.1%

I also looked at the racial breakdown in 1999 (ten years ago) and it was almost exactly the same Levittown - News, Events, Schools, Apartments, Real Estate, Homes, College Admissions
white 89%
Asian 2.79
Hispanic 6.51%

To me, it seems that the population had stayed almost exactly the same in breakdown. hopefully people are not so racist as to see a few non-white people and panic

Someone mentioned an increase in diverstiy scaring away white buyers????? What???? All of LI is becoming more diverse and if 88% white scares you, then I wouldn't want to live with you in Levittown. I live here and don't see an influx of hispanic families (an increase in 1% over 10 years is not an influx...it means a handful of nice families moved in.) Somehow I think that the previous poster is again making an issue where there is none.

If I may, and personally, I would be more comfortable with you quoting from US Government statistics. Somehow a website called "Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed" doesn't make it, in the reputation department. Sorry.

But just in general, all of the statistics in the WORLD, doesn't cut it, "if", say, you have lived on a block for the past 40-some years, and out of 20 homes, there is only 1 original family left, AND IT'S YOU.

Something like this is going to get you thinking, there's a FULL SCALE INVASION going on here !

This makes MORE of an impression and you aren't going to think the statistics are "right" or even important to quell your nerves about how "things" are changing ! It's about things like familiarity, and personal safety...maybe a tinge of paranoia....BUT justifiable, because people are Human.

Again, because it's "YOU" !

[I_Love_LI_but]

Originally Posted by longislandmike

But just in general, all of the statistics in the WORLD, doesn't cut it, "if", say, you have lived on a block for the past 40-some years, and out of 20 homes, there is only 1 original family left, AND IT'S YOU.

Howard Stern complained that his parents refusal to move out of Roosevelt until long after they were the last whites there caused him to become so nutty. Fortunately for Howard he made quite a career out of his nuttiness.

[llama8]

Originally Posted by longislandmike

If I may, and personally, I would be more comfortable with you quoting from US Government statistics. Somehow a website called "Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitors sites is not allowed" doesn't make it, in the reputation department. Sorry.

But just in general, all of the statistics in the WORLD, doesn't cut it, "if", say, you have lived on a block for the past 40-some years, and out of 20 homes, there is only 1 original family left, AND IT'S YOU.

Something like this is going to get you thinking, there's a FULL SCALE INVASION going on here !

This makes MORE of an impression and you aren't going to think the statistics are "right" or even important to quell your nerves about how "things" are changing ! It's about things like familiarity, and personal safety...maybe a tinge of paranoia....BUT justifiable, because people are Human.

Again, because it's "YOU" !

I looked on government websites and the stats are the same. Sorry I just happend to quote the first site I went on.

I still don't understand how you can categorize a town that is 88% white, 7% hispanic, 0.5% black and 2.9% Asian as a diverse community on LI?

I am also beginning to take offense to some of your comments on this post. Calling a family of minority status that moves in "an invasion" could be very offensive. I truly hope that you were being sarcastic or playing devil's advocate, and not delving into racist banter. I prefer not to be sullied with that type of discourse and to get back on topic

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by llama8

The reason why some of Levitt home prices are so low is that the very small, original box homes are some of the smallest homes on LI. Anyone with an expanded home is selling at the same rate as other towns on LI. The tiny box homes are so small and not updated that you can find a glut of them at the bottom of the market. It doesn't have to do with the area, it is the home size. They are some of the smallest in Nassau

Even though most homes are expanded in some way, you can still find quite a few originals for cheap. I give people in the 1950's credit for fitting big families into the tiny homes.

Actually, the Levittown Historical Society had a very difficult time finding true originals as they prepared for the 50th anniversary of Levittown a few years back.

[OhBeeHave]

Originally Posted by I_Love_LI_but

That's Madam to you, My Dear! Unfortunately there will be no apology forthcoming, but do rest assured that I find you an amusing old rascal nonetheless.

I am just saying that your experience living on the eastern parts of our Faire Long Island makes your commentary invaluable. However, your lack of experience in towns on the western parts of our Faire Long Island sometimes causes you to post whoppers. Please try and VISIT a town over here at least once in awhile. You notice that much more often than not I do not make comments when people inquire about towns out in Suffolk County because I leave it to people like you with the expertise in that area gained by residing there.

psssssst...he's posted a few whoppers about this end of the Isle, too.